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Boosting for exposure and potentially edifying conversation 🙏 nostr:nevent1qqspm9ugjsspjzqu7m2m239g75d7f2xtqxwpg7whlm0uvpykz9exhxqpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygzvwdwqqxtkvt34qydljkl7audj3eq3rqfsh4yg0efl8etnld8rmypsgqqqqqqsz7wwm2

This is Protestantism in a nutshell. God help them.

Or just follow Christ and scripture without another human lording over you. Only Christ is King.

I oppose the circumnavigation of the Bible by traditions that ignore what is said in the Bible like this: 1 Timothy 3:1-7 KJV “This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.” Shared using AndBible: Bible Study. (https://andbible.github.io) --- Here's a Vatican translation: Chapter 3 1 1 This saying is trustworthy: 2 whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. 2 Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; 5 for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? 6 He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil's punishment. 3 7 He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil's trap.

Yeah, it involves literacy, thinking, praying and communion. The only priest is Jesus Christ.

Amen

Follw Christ, yes. Follow Scripture, yes. Only Christ is King, yes. Christ does not advocate anyone "lording over you," but to be consistent in following Christ the King and following Scripture is also to accept legitimate authority in the Church. Following our own ideas of religion does not equate to following Christ. Doing what he says does.

Wait, I'm confused. You're acknowledging that Scripture says we need bishops? Are you saying that the problem is that the Catholic church fails to live up to these standards? That's true, the church is made up of sinners. But you're suggesting that the solution is to... do away with the office of bishop (that Scripture tells us is important and good). I must be misunderstanding the point you're trying to make here...

"No priest but Christ" does not align with Holy Scripture. The Apostles (they were the first Bishops) and their Elders made up the initial priesthood. Acts 15:1-41 — And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. “So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, “and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. “Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? “But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.” Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: “Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. “And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.’ “Known to God from eternity are all His works. “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, “but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. “For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.” Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter. When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement. Now Judas and Silas, themselves being prophets also, exhorted and strengthened the brethren with many words. And after they had stayed there for a time, they were sent back with greetings from the brethren to the apostles. However, it seemed good to Silas to remain there. Paul and Barnabas also remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. Then after some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us now go back and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they are doing.” Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark. But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work. Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. And so Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus; but Paul chose Silas and departed, being commended by the brethren to the grace of God. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

Momma Mia... I've got to give this more attention than I can right now. Please forgive me. I don't want to carelessly disregard your much typing. Please accept this 🫂 for a temporary place holder.

I read this and I'm wondering what this is proving or disproving. Circumcision of the heart is the message. Or circumcision by the Holy Spirit/Ghost If the point is to prove how ignorant I am then that's not difficult. I'm an idiot. Through Christ I am saved. Not through any man. I just got down on my knees and asked Jesus to save me. It was done. From my baptism 6 September 1981 to January 2025 I was without direction and I did much circumnavigating to learn all the wrong I could. It would be impossible for me to sit in any Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox Church where the Bible is not the most important base of reference. I live near plenty of churches. I had to look hard to find a Bible believing congregation. I've studied a lot of things besides Christianity and it's all shit. I like the Bible. The Bible is easy to verify. It's also nothing like any "religious" text.

Ok, so this portion of Acts is the first documented council in Christendom: The Jerusalem Council where St. James (Bishop of Jerusalem), St Paul, St Peter, and St Barnabas as well as other elders (priests) preside over a very important decision in the early Church. I posted this portion of Holy Scripture to show you that there is Scriptural precedence for Bishops and Priests. There are 9 more councils held by the Church that are authoritative and were presided over by Bishops. These councils were not declaring new theology but rather defending the revelation it received from Christ Himself. Here are 7 that most folks are familiar with, the final 2 councils are debated between the East and the West. They primarily cover the filioque clause (and the Son) that the Latins inserted into the Nicene Creed and the essence energies distinction. 1. Nicaea 325 Arianism Christ is fully God 2. Constantinople 381 Divinity of Holy Spirit Trinity affirmed 3. Ephesus 431 Nestorianism Mary = Theotokos 4. Chalcedon 451 Nature of Christ Two natures, one person 5. Constantinople II 553 “Three Chapters” Clarified Chalcedon 6. Constantinople III 680–681 Monothelitism Two wills in Christ 7. Nicaea II 787 Iconoclasm Icons venerated The same authority you see in Acts is the very same authority (The Church guided by The Holy Spirit) you see in the councils that follow. Additionally, these same councils bring you the canon of Scripture (The protestant canon is not the canon that is eventually confirmed as it is missing the Deutercanonical texts) and the earliest complete list comes from St. Athanasius in the 360s.

Sounds complicated. I'm going to keep it simple. The question is, are you saved, or not? I'm saved through Jesus Christ. If you don't know whether you are saved or not, then I would recommend reading the Bible and throwing away all commentaries. It's even easier than that. Get down on your knees and ask Jesus to come into your heart and life. Ask him to wash away your sins with his blood. You don't need any councils for this. Just you and Jesus Christ. He's not dead. He's alive right here and now. He is waiting for you to let him into your heart. He's so far beyond all of the commentaries, icons and self righteous machinations. He's here right now. He wants us to be in fellowship and he knows we are sinners. He's ready to accept our fellowship. I'm going to pray. Dear Heavenly Father, I ask you in the name of your son, Jesus Christ, to anoint us with the blood of your son and let us be in fellowship with you through your Son. Forgive us for our nonsense and grant us favor to do your will and your work. In your son's name, Jesus Christ; The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, Amen.

The Bible believer believes that councils are necessary since the Bible shows a council was called in Acts 15. It was important to them; it should be important to us too. As for getting on one's knees and praying, it should be no surprise that Catholics are used to that -- and often are even ridiculed for it. We pray every week as Mass for mercy, as we publicly confess our sins "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault." And then we accept Jesus into our hearts, onto our tongues, and into our tummies. We will know we are ultimately saved when we die in his friendship. The way to salvation is indeed simple, but not as simplistic as some want to imagine it is.

It isn't complicated, the Church has 2000 years of history that is worth everyone's time but I do very much appreciate the dialogue. God bless you brother.

Actually we have 6000 years. We are still having it. We are in direct communion. The key is that Christ opened up the way to all of us because we are degenerates. Just in the book of Genesis we go from living nearly 1,000 years to barely 90! We are in Revelation now. It's ok to think. It's not ok to go against God.

Or more specifically, the age of the Church 🙏

How many Catholic Bishops are married to a woman, one woman and have a family?

Because nostr:nprofile1qqsr3qd74m4d9n8ymu0875n7nt0q54epujn0vyhlntyz4fkf9vq559c3x2qdj's argument is "it's okay to go against God."

(Wondering if a married Protestant "bishop" can't "bishop" until he and his wife are able to produce children.) The thrust of the qualification is that a bishop can't be a two-woman man. Not a womanizer. Just one wife, if married. Historically, bishops and priests that were married could not remarry if their wife died -- and couldn't GET married at all if ordained while single. If marriage was an absolute requirement, then Paul couldn't have been a bishop. Neither could Jesus. The consensus is also that John (the apostle) was unmarried.

If we look at Abraham with Isaac. We wonder why he would want to sacrifice his son. Recently I realized that Abraham knew God would not lie. Abraham believed that the sacrificial Lamb would be provided. He also believed that if he sacrificed his son Isaac, Isaac would be risen from the dead because God promised that Abraham would be the father of many nations through his only son. His other son, Ishmael, was also the father of many nations, the Arabs. Good promised that through his wife Sarah, Abraham would be the father of many nations. This also prepared us for the emotional experience of God sacrificing his son Jesus Christ. Genesis 1:1 KJV “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” John 1:1-2 KJV “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God.” Jesus, The Logos, is the word. The Church was established before creation. It's an active and living body. It's also not an organization by men. It's an organization observed by men.

What is the organization observed by men?

Jesus should not even be compared in your equation at all. The word of God is the word of God. Perversion is clear. The apostasy desires that all exceptions become the rule and that the common sense of Scripture be disregarded. Again, I ask, is your way a way of salvation or is it a convoluted structure meant to numb men into believing they are not saved through Jesus Christ. Clearly the LORD made man and woman to be married and in service with each other. Do you want to prove a point and apologize for apostasy or do you want to send souls to be with Christ?

Jesus is a very good comparison for those who believe the Bible, which calls him the "Shepherd and Bishop of our souls" (1 Peter 2:25, KJV). As the model for all bishops, Jesus lived a celibate life. And so Paul did as well, and John, and Timothy. And throughout history (for those who don't choose to ignore it), there have been so many to this day who served as bishop unmarried. Paul strongly recommends the single life for those who want to want to focus on the affairs of the Lord (see 1 Corinthians 7:32-34). How would that not align perfectly with the bishopric? If not the bishopric, what other vocation demands more attention to the Lord's affairs? Yes, God made man and woman to be married, but the generality doesn't rule out the exception, as both Paul (1 Cor. 7) and Jesus (Mat. 19:12) make abundantly clear for Bible believers. Obviously I reject apostasy and want all souls to be saved in Christ. If we love Christ, we should love his Book AND his Church (aka, "the pillar and foundation of the truth") -- his visible Body.