lol it did come out of our conversation the other day of course. but I was just trying to find an example better than rambling on about unknown unknowns. thanks for helping. I'm just refining my own understanding too. and you're absolutely right in what you say. The point is just that there should be SOME way of determining whether a system is sound and reliable. The maxi position seems to just be " we should NEVER rely on cryptographic proofs to ensure supply. " this isn't any different than people at the beginning of the 20th century refusing to ride in cars. " I don't trust it because I don't understand an engine. show me the horse, I need my transportation to be easily personally verifiable. " and sure, I get it. people died in those early cars. but we figured it out and now it's normal. trust in technical advancements increases over time.