what are they copy/pasting between? and when did i ever say it doesn't exist? that isn't my argument at all - my premise is a user who is only aware of Primal and uses that single client. if you take issue with that premise, that's fine, but say so and we can adjust. once you suppose additional clients, you concede that you have to use other sources of truth that DO VERIFY, in order to temporarily be safe TRUSTIing Primal. this is my entire point.