Replies (55)
Nostr isn't ready for an influx like this first of all. Relays would fall down, and how would clients handle posts with 30k likes? We need to figure out caching and aggregation strategies that are better than just checking all relays. And unfortunately this is hard to do without centralization. There are lots of unsolved problems, decentralization is hard.
Real talk on why Nostr isn't catching the exodus:
**Friction:**
- "Write down this 64-char hex" vs "Sign in with Google"
- Finding friends is hard — social graph doesn't exist
**No killer feature:**
- What does Nostr do that Twitter can't? For normies: nothing obvious
**Marketing:**
- Zero budget vs Twitter's $44B acquisition
**The fix:**
Build apps that solve real problems, make Nostr the invisible backend. Zaps are cool but not enough.
We need patience. TCP/IP took decades. 🧡
#asknostr #nostr
Why Nostr isn't catching the exodus:
1. "Write down this hex" vs "Sign in with Google"
2. Can't find friends - no social graph yet
3. No killer feature for normies
The fix: Apps that solve real problems, Nostr as invisible backend.
TCP/IP took decades. We're early. 🧡
on the other hand client developers aren't going to optimize anything until they see shit happening
100% agree, even though i'm mainly a developer/designer, this is now my #1 priority. what's the point of developing more and more stuff if there isn't a sufficiently big and active community to use it? like you alluded to.
i don't think there's 1 sure-fire way to make this work. i do think some of the methods you outlined might help. i'd be curious to know exactly what upscrolled and farcaster and some of the other guys did to get traction.
for my part, i'm experimenting with commerce. dissident soaps, black rifle coffee company, etc seem like companies that are already pretty closely aligned to the bitcoin/nostr mindset, which is the hard part. what if we set up a retailer that sold some of their wares? moving units might get them to pay attention, join nostr, and become active. and perhaps being their customers along with them (over time). this is what i have in mind with my reboot of
@ICKNO.
my other follow-on initiative to that is to create a lifestyle brand to promote open-source software. make foss look cool, not nerdy. another big problem we have is that these tools we like are nerdy and fiddly, and that's something most people don't want to deal with. getting rid of that image, and emphasizing the driving purpose of FREEDOM in all of foss is paramount imo. freedom is cool af. it needs to be branded that way, particularly with respect to software.
Yes, also very true
We are probably overthinking the decentralization. Just being able to switch from one relay to another is an order of magnitude better than centralized platforms already. I say bring them on. When everything starts breaking down we'll be forced to solve real world problems as opposed to eternal bikeshedding in the NIPs repo.
we should probably compare to UpScrolled, not Twitter
real slop talk
Sure, it's a chicken/egg thing, I have not problem with us getting hammered with traffic. We're probably just going to fail a few more times before everything is up to snuff
yes please.
Big social media isn't a technology— it's a spell. The people are spellbound.
We need a counterspell.
White magic only plz.
Ur doing the Lord's work sir, I am posting #Nostr QR codes everywhere I am able 🎨
You said it. Everyone’s building Nostr apps for existing zealots in here, it’s not helping us grow.
We need normal software that provides value to normies, with Nostr integrated unbeknownst to the users.
Is upscrolled funding Hamas ? Or visa versa
We are in the very stage of NOSTR. Similarly, Bitcoin's adoption started with a small number of enthusiasts, slowly spreading to early adopters outside of the cypherpunk community. As censorship increases, people will eventually find their way to Bitcoin (financial sovereignty) and NOSTR (communication sovereignty), two foundational components of freedom for the individual and the collective.
Israel funds Hamas.
Decentralized gopher servers (nodes) ultimately used centralized indexing servers or clients to make externally-hosted content searchable and retrievable. Maybe something similar is needed to make finding content across nostr relays similarly easy and familiar.
The technology as it stands can handle it, IF it remains decentralised and if we accept it becoming increasingly subculture-fragmented like #Fediverse.
The supply of "Uncle Jims" able to spin up new relays is the bottleneck, but #Nostr has a major edge over Fediverse there - simpler relays with lesser hardware requirements.
I am not a developer so can't understand how much effort in this direction, but do you think without having such influx, clients will ever be tested for that?
I am screaming this since I joined, but i guess many people saying that rn it cannot handle such large users, understandable then.
It comes with the freedom .
People are free to use their time on whatever thing they doing and the alghoritme didn’t reward or punished so the algorithm is based on the owner of npub keys it self .
That what makes Nostr can not be like saga Upscrolled .
Unless some private relay or clients want to take up their game into next level
Social
Media in which using alghoritme by half like other social media
Would a hybrid approach work? Centralize the likes, follows.... etc and decentralized the more critical stuff?
Really good questions. Wish I had really good answers.
I do think pain can help. It's a chicken and egg problem.
What do you think about economical side of such large user influx, will it be survive without ads, and do you think ads necessarily against the principal of nostr, like we all agree that ads are bad, but without that only relying on volunteerly contributions will work? It will be kind of the "incentive to work" problem to creators as well. I am sorry if I am asking too much question, I'm non developer and enthusiastic person who wants mass adoption of nostr lol. You can redirect me to articles or something if you dont want to answer such long questions. Thank you
"Bring them on"
They are not lining up to be brought on, that's kind of the whole point of the OP.
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is there tooling to stress test / benchmark relays for load?
I agree, noster "primal" is so frustrating to me, I never get replies, and I spend enormous time scrolling to the top because there is no other way to get to new feeds. Plus to weed out subjects like sports is impossible. I see more of what I don't have time for and so little of what I am searching. Frustrated to no end trying to get financial/global/crypto/political/legal news and a ton of what doesn't make any difference in my life like what team scored what goal, etc.
Bitcoin is not freedom with KYC, dude, go to Monero...far better ethics....
The problem is nostr made a faustian bargain with bitcoin. That makes it essentially unmarketable to the masses.
why do you want more people here? lol
There are a few I think. I know divine has been looking into scaling their relay
@Alex GleasonI think advertising ia bad, but it will happen anyway, but nostr's architecture limits how bad it can be, and those of us who are principled can still find business models that work, especially with bitcoin in the mix. Maybe I will write about this, I have some ideas.
Maybe, I bet there are ways to get better guarantees via zk proofs or something
I think we need an incentive for normal every day people to use Nostr. Right now people who are above average intelligence, know about Bitcoin, or want a censorship resistant platform might stumble upon Nostr.
We need a way to show your average "normie" why they should use Nostr.
Right now the incentives tend to be more with the content creators, we need to show the user they have incentive as well.
Why? Normies are horrible and make most things worse.
There are a ton of people here with very normie ideals that already drive the value of nostr down below the average fedi experience.
Why would we want this to be more like any normie space?
Well Said.
Good points... I guess that's a totally different mindset to have. I think the space is great and think what makes it great is the fact that there exists some barriers to entry to access.
I think what Ben was asking is how do we get mass adoption here on Nostr? For mass adoption, obviously we would need normies (they are a part of the "masses").
Personally, I am not a content creator (yet), but if I needed to monetize? Then I would want all the normies you could find =)
Why are you still using x?
Don't try on their platform if you are against it. Have faith in people.
If all the big names, in our community(freedom, p2p trust less cash, uncensored notes) just left to what they believe in, more will follow, or more will ask the question 'where did all those guys go?'
Then the users will come.
That's my positive take. And faith in people.
My followers is growing.
Check out some of my notes, a cool one from today😎
I think growth is normal and good and has a lot of benefits. Don't get me wrong. However. I think that there's a downside to having a lot of new people with different values all of a sudden. I think rather than THE masses we should be attempting to preach to the choir.
Tell people we suspect are somewhat unsatisfied with normal platforms or who have fears of looming censorship to be using nostr as a backup or whatever.
I'm definitely not against growth so I don't want to give that impression. I just think there are more likeminded people out there that ultimately would be a good or maybe even better group that might be even more willing to buy what you're selling over the average normie.
I don't want you to think I'm just trying to shit on your idea. That's not my point haha
Cuz its made for everyone...
It isn't though. People constantly talk about how "it's too hard for grandma" to get on here or involved with any btc shit.
It's such a lie to say that it's made for everyone.
It is
It doesn't make it more true if you say it more.
Its a decentralized protocol. Open for anyone to use it. If it wasnt the restriction would be made for bitcoin community only. You cant tell me on decentralized protocol what to do or where to lean... it doesnt make sense.
Close it for your bitcoiners only and enjoy the show. Then you can tell me that it was designed for bitcoin only...
My argument isn't that it's for "bitcoiners only"
My argument is that it's not for everyone. In the same way broccoli isn't for everyone. Or seafood isn't for everyone. Or painting isn't for everyone.
There are already built in barriers for entry which will inherently eliminate potential users like children or the elderly.
Thats true. But you are also offensive over the people that are here now. Which then means you just have a problem with who ever doesnt use it in bitcoin way. As you said... it already selected those who can use it by them not being able to access the protocol... so what do you have a problem with normies now that are using this protocol for their own stuff after already passing that elimination barrier? And why do you say that they are dropping the value? Thats not true... that is solely your opinion that I dont agree with ... they cant drop the value because there is no chart to follow. You do what you want... who likes it will follow who doesnt will not.
I'm not even that gung-ho about bitcoin honestly. At best it's just different money. At worst it's a complete scam. Not a big deal really.
The issues I have with some of the people here aren't about Bitcoin.
I care about culture over just about everything else. The idea of more normies increases pretty undesirable culture in my mind. And decreases uniqueness to this platform over any other platform.
At a certain point it just becomes Facebook with bitcoin and more annoying steps to get here. I don't think anyone really wants a carbon copy of Facebook culturally speaking.
Or Reddit. Or Twitter or any other place.
Right now as I see it this is an alternative to the fedi. Although the fedi might actually be better for culture purposes.
I'm trying to address your questions and I think I have the best I can but if I missed anything let me know.
Also I'm perfectly fine disagreeing. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Just letting you know my position.
Well noted sir. Well you know what drives me here?! Just for you to also see some others mind perspective.
Nostr for me is freedom... freedom of literally everything... This is at the moment the only actual place where you can truly be yourself. A lot of people here are in some "hidings". For their own reasons. I know... I know... You may think this woman has this anon thing all wrong in her head. But some people just dont see how much this place should be the only freeking place where investigative journalists should be and spread the truth and people as such. Because everywhere else you are so limited in expressing yourself freely.
Well I am just one of those who would love to see this place of the only place you can see actual TRUTH! So I would love that here... that vibe...
People who truly motivate for great stuff and not a place of idolising bullshit action figures and ocultish stuff... call me mad. But you see I dont care about nothing ... more than truth in this life fairness and true freedom of speech. And i think History needs a place like that...🥳✨️🤷♀️
For the average person I think the crypto association is detrimental to an extent. Many will have been burned by the volatility in recent years and shun anything associated with decentralised technology.
Nostr should just advertise itself as an uncensored X, simple.
I promote nostr in X constantly. Particularly with the numerous posts there about upscrolled.
The problem nostr has I refer to in this post, here
Tone Bone
GM, frens.😃 I
this constant whine about nostr and focus on non-nostr things reads that you don't know or care about actual nostr users. you're using fiat metrics and ignoring the value that is here in the consideration of throwing money toward bribing externals into thinking your cool.
