Thanks will get some to test it with

They ask for nsec key rather than BIP39, why is that I wonder 😏

I'm not sure, but personally, I find the bip39 standard confusing, and I don't exactly blame them for not following it

They have plans to follow it later. It's a single private key and single public key for now for simplicity

Keychat allows for a nym with nsec and seed phrase, not sure if their seed phrase follows bip39, i suppose it should

Yes just created a nym in keychat, used nsec and restore wallet, boom 💥 in

i hadnt heard of arc before. it seems a counterparty is needed. if thats true, what does that counter party do and could it be replaced by a CRDT instead? ...sry if that doesnt make any sense. ...just trying to figure out what are pros/cons compared to lightning. if you have good links that give a good detailed summary, that wpuld help too 🙂

BIP39 is used to derive BIP85 child key. I think it is the only option if using a single backup and index based derived key sets including BIP85 32bit hex keys used as nsec. It is very convenient if proper key management is required.

I don't understand this condition: > if using a single backup and index based derived key sets including BIP85 32bit hex keys used as nsec. But if I could get away with ignoring it, I would only quote this part: "I think it is the only option" and then I would say "it's clearly not the only option because bitcoin core doesn't use bip39." Sadly, I can't say that without doing an injustice to what you said

It's just a question of convenience. You can obviously use something else but having a seperate key backups for every thing becomes ineffective, especially if you're using steel backups. Bitcon started off with address-based backups, it doesn't mean it was the most effective approach, it was the reason why folks build better solutions.

Why does it not speak lightning? 😱

There are two companies building Ark Ark Labs: docs.arkadeos.com Second: docs.second.tech There is trust involved to an extent in Ark, you need to trust that the Ark server won't collude with the sender of the payment to double spend it, but that's only for payments that you receive instantly, if you wait for some time your balance (called VTXOs) can be included as part of an aggregate txn that the Ark server makes after an interval which removes the trust assumption

No LN?

You can receive and send via lightning, but it works using Boltz for swaps, which is a non-custodial AKA non trusted system for swapping sats in different systems like onchain, Liquid and Ark The functionality might be broken sometimes because it's still experimental but when it works it feels seamless

I tried LayerZ that is also support have Ark but it's not working, fails to generate an invoice.

That’s what I thought, but one needs a Lightning address to be able to send over lightning and I don’t see that option. What am I missing?

DeFi? Can we not…

Got 500 sats rugged :( Experimental overall I know, but I'm so used to lightning ⚡ being flawless that it's a little disappointing... Anyway, I'll test again in few months

Try scrolling a bit, here is what I see:

> Lightning payments Yay! > DeFi Ew > assets Ew

It's there for me

From what I can tell, it does

Nope, I don’t have that option. Do I maybe need to enable it somewhere?

there seems to be some threshold, for 100 sats there is no LN, 500 there is.

Boltz API error. Hate wallets that rely on Boltz.

For me, I noticed that it's only there if I set an amount

In the screenshot you can see that I did set an amount

Looks like it supports Lightning if it's over a certain threshold. I sent in 2000 SATs with Lightning and it works perfectly. Restored the wallet on another device and sent the SATs out. Couldn't get the QR scan to work but pasting the lightning invoice in worked great.

How is this Bitcoin restored if the site goes down?

is there a version of that without the instant to avoid any form of something that sounds "custodial"? which feature does ark provide that lightning cant and why?

love that it's a PWA

I don't think they have a recovery tool in place, so you would probably lose your bitcoins forever if the server went down. But in theory, whenever a user sends or receives money, they are supposed to get a set of signed transactions that they can broadcast in order to exit unilaterally with their new balance, without needing further assistance from the server. If the users keep a local cache of these signed transactions (which I do not think is currently being done, but it might be), then the user can broadcast them even if the server disappears, and thus get their balance out. There is an important caveat, though: when you receive money in this implementation of Ark, the default way that happens is through something called an "out of round payment." In that mode, you *do* get signed transactions that you can broadcast at any time, but they do *not* offer a true unilateral exit. (But it's not as bad as it sounds, keep reading.) The transactions are timelocked, and some of their inputs can be doublespent by the server if he colludes with other users. If he did that, your exit transactions would be invalidated, and you would lose money. But that is only the "default" way you receive money in this implementation of Ark. There is a second way to receive money, called an "in round payment," and if you receive money *that* way, the server does not have the ability to doublespend the inputs to your exit transactions, so you have a "true" unilateral exit. Also, I believe this Ark wallet does something called a periodic refresh, and whenever it does this, your coins should automatically change from "out of round" to "in round," thus (eventually) giving you true unilateral exit even for coins received the "default" way. I'm not sure when these periodic refreshes happen. As a further caveat, if you "miss" one of these periodic refreshes (e.g. your wallet was offline), and you don't come online within a grace period after that, I believe your exit transactions become invalid anyway, and the service becomes fully custodial.

Great answer! Thank you!

You are right! The threshold is 333 ₿

not that I'm aware of