i've been part of both kinds (trainwreck/not) and the latter is far more enjoyable and survivable

Was the latter VC-backed. How big was the company when you where there? Did the VC made money on that trade?

The trainwrecks had initial pre-seed funding (mix of angels and VC) but fizzled out just before seed raising trying to find product/market fit in a far-too-novel niche, much too close to open source software. The non-trainwreck: as far as I know, for the most part bootstrapped and profitable. I'm not a super experienced expert in this field, but my spidey sense from observation and vibe-checking is that VC money is mostly a problem unless there is strong and focused alignment with the startup's "spiritual" mission. Which is probably almost always impossible for any of the products and technologies I'm interested in. Which is probably why I think VC money is almost always an anti-pattern in my world. I'm certain there are whole books about this that I haven't read

A briefer way to put this: I tend to want to work on products that by definition and by design cannot be profitable. Like open source code that people can self-host and potentially build **their own businesses on** where I'm no longer in the loop. Try pitching that to a VC.

Catallax - A Protocol for Pseudonymous Contract Work Economies

Catallax is an open protocol that enables pseudonymous contract work economies. It runs over Nostr, Bitcoin and Cashu ecash for censorship-resistan...

is not a great example of this concept, but it's directionally correct. I want to provide an open source self-hostable SaaS-like package for #catallax that specifically does not enrich me.

Yeah, I almost don't call bootstrapped companies "startups" because they are more like regular small businesses than the crazy stuff we see with VC money. High ROI expectations, high levels of craziness.

So, something like albyhub's model?

I'm not extremely familiar with albyhub, but probably pretty close, yea. A docker container(s) with very user-friendly configuration and feature flags to get a "one click" installation of a configurable/extendable catallax client (including optional white/black lists), an optional relay, an optional cashu mint, optional Brainstorm instance, etc. a "launch your own highly-scoped or totally general gig/bounty marketplace".

I talk about this a little bit here:

KP017: Interview with Vinney Cavallo - Key Pair

Two developers exploring Bitcoin, Lightning, and Nostr to build user-empowering apps

Can get you a timecode here later

Nice, yes, it is similar. But they also offer a way to let them host it for you. So, I prefer paying those developing to host (while knowing I could host it at any time) then to host it myself. It's just less work and I ended up supporting the developers in that way.

There are a lot of reasons I (personally) don't want to be hosting arbitrary catallax stuff. But I would applaud someone who takes the open source catallax "platform package" and creates their own "I'll host your instance for you" service! the timecodes I promised:

KP017: Interview with Vinney Cavallo - Key Pair

Two developers exploring Bitcoin, Lightning, and Nostr to build user-empowering apps

(web audio player works nicely) 00:43:45 - general discussion of catallax 00:50:00 - i don't want to create a live marketplace myself 00:55:40 - how to incentivize people to run their own <-- (this is the mention of the "one-click setup")

It's complicated and dark, but: I'll know the stack of open-protocols/pseudonymity/private ecash/reputation systems are working properly when there are "illegal" activities being carried out on them. I say it's complicated because I am morally opposed to a lot of those activities, but I believe strongly that their existence "over there" will be proof that we've arrived at proper freedom tech that ALSO supports the "good people" and "good activities" I DO approve of and want to see more of. If nobody is trafficking guns and drugs, it's not free enough nor private enough. It's unfortunate that that's how neutral freedom tech works, but I don't make the rules.

I agree, but I think it's great. In the end it's people who are responsible for themselves as individuals. If they choose to hurt themselves or engage in stupid behaviors, they were never that great to begin with. And I see a lot of value in even evil people. Everything plays a part. Let's just pray that property rights are properly enforced. The freedom of association on here is already getting pretty excellent.

This still does enrich you if you do it right. Prioritizing the consumer to that extreme level tends to make you the go-to in highly responsible, perceptive, libertarian, or UNIX philosophy circles. It earns you a great reputation and allows your products to play nicely with everything else so that they have a strong, long-lasting incentive to use your stuff.