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GrunkleBitcoin
grunklebitcoin@nostrplebs.com
npub1ctpn...h6w6
Fascinated with Technology
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GrunkleBitcoin 3 months ago
So I asked LLM this question. Here’s a breakdown of the arguments for and against increasing the OP_RETURN (aka datacarrier) limit in Bitcoin Core 30, from the perspective of its developers, and what those arguments imply. I’ll lay out the core-devs’ rationale, the trade-offs, and the counterarguments. If you like, I can also include what the critics are saying so you can weigh both sides. ⸻ What Core 30 is proposing / what change was merged • Currently, there is an OP_RETURN (datacarrier) default limit of 80 bytes of arbitrary data in an output.  • In Bitcoin Core v30 (targeted for ~October 2025), the policy on OP_RETURN is being relaxed: the datacarrier limit is removed (i.e. much larger data allowed in OP_RETURN outputs). The new limit becomes something near the maximum transaction size or constrained by block size / weight limits.  • One report says the new policy is for ~4 MB (block weight limit or max block) for OP_RETURN data in a transaction output.  • There are command-line parameters to enforce stricter limits (for node operators) but some of those are being deprecated or may become warning-only.  ⸻ Arguments For Increasing / Removing the OP_RETURN Limit (Core Devs’ Side) Here are the reasons, motivations, and benefits that core devs have raised to justify this change: 1. Cleaner standard behaviour / avoiding “workarounds” • With the 80-byte limit, some users who want to embed larger data are forced to use non-OP_RETURN methods (e.g. putting data in outputs, script hacks, or making outputs that remain “unspent” etc.). Some of those are worse for the UTXO set or for node resource management. The idea is that by allowing larger OP_RETURNs, operators and users will prefer this prunable, clearly defined output type rather than those hacky alternatives.  • Some devs argue the existing policy is arbitrary and mismatched: some data embedding already happens via other channels, even if OP_RETURN is restricted. The restriction encourages “less clean” methods.  2. UTXO set / node resource preservation • OP_RETURN outputs are provably unspendable. They do not create UTXOs (since the output is not spendable). That means they don’t bloat the UTXO set. This is a big point: most data methods that misuse other kinds of outputs can leave UTXOs, which must be stored forever by nodes, increasing state size. Allowing more data in OP_RETURN (which is prunable/unspendable) is seen as less harmful in that dimension.  3. Consistency with relay / miner practices • Some miners already accept larger OP_RETURN or data-heavy transactions, or they make side arrangements. So the current “standardness” policies may not reflect what’s actually happening in mining. Allowing larger OP_RETURNs aligns the default relay policy with miner behaviour and expected usage.  4. Censorship resistance & permissionlessness • One of the values of Bitcoin, from the dev-side, is that nodes and network should not pick and choose what kinds of “valid” transaction content they allow in relay by policy in a way that stifles certain legitimate use cases. Restricting data payloads can be seen as a soft form of censorship or gatekeeping. Expanding OP_RETURN allows more free expression (for use cases like decentralized identity, proofs, anchoring, metadata etc.) in a well-defined and standardized way.  5. Better defaults, node operator options • While increasing the default, Core devs note that node operators will still have parameter flags to enforce stricter limits if they choose. So, you get flexibility: people who want a “minimal” node can still run with smaller limits, others can allow more. This offers a more modular approach.  6. Prevent “worse” unintended consequences • Because of the limit, people use worse alternatives that can have higher cost to network state, more expensive to relay, more fragile. By offering a clean, relayed, relay-policy default path for larger data, it may reduce centralization pressures (e.g. data embedding only via private miner APIs) and reduce complexity.  ⸻ Potential Risks / Trade-Offs Core Devs Acknowledge (and Critics’ Arguments) While the core dev side pushes these arguments, they are aware of trade-offs or downsides: 1. Block weight & bandwidth / storage • Larger OP_RETURNs might make transactions larger, increasing bandwidth and storage needs for nodes, especially when syncing, relaying, storing full history. Even if an OP_RETURN doesn’t create new UTXOs, the data still must be stored in blocks forever once mined. More data = larger blocks or fewer regular transactions per block. That could increase cost of running a full node in terms of disk, bandwidth, and CPU verification. 2. Relay spam / mempool abuse • Allowing bigger OP_RETURN outputs means someone might flood the mempool with large, data-heavy “junk” transactions (with low utility), pushing out or crowding regular payments. That affects mempool policy, bandwidth, and could increase cost for “useful” transactions. Core devs believe fee markets will mitigate this — if you send large data you’ll pay proportionally more. But opposition doubts whether fee markets are sufficient deterrents in practice.  3. Decentralization / Node resource requirements • If nodes must store / verify larger data payloads, it raises the bar for hardware, internet bandwidth, storage. Some node-operators with limited resources may be burdened. This could cause fewer people to run full nodes, or make nodes less decentralized. This concern is frequently raised.  4. “Garbage on chain” / non-financial use & ideological purity • Some community members (purists) argue that Bitcoin’s purpose is financial — payments, store of value, settlement — and embedding non-monetary data (images, documents, large arbitrary data) is “mission creep.” They worry that increasing OP_RETURN encourages more “artifacts” or “junk.” There’s also concern that the change could shift incentives away from financial transactions.  5. Backward compatibility / standardness / policy fragmentation • Even though this is not a consensus change (so technically everyone can still enforce policies), there’s a risk of fragmentation: nodes opting into different relay policies, different limitations, causing inconsistencies in what gets relayed, what is accepted, etc. This could make behavior unpredictable for wallets/developers.  6. User cost & miner incentives • Larger data means larger transaction sizes → higher fees. This might price out certain uses. Also, miners might prioritize large data OP_RETURNs if fees are good, but that could change the transaction mix. There are questions about whether users are willing to pay enough to make it practical.  ⸻ Balancing / Why Core Devs Think the Trade-Offs Are Worth It Putting the above together, here’s how the core dev side balances pros and cons and why they believe increasing OP_RETURN (removing or raising the limit) is the “right” direction: • They see the existing limit as often pushing people towards “worse” patterns that are more harmful than a cleaner, larger OP_RETURN. For example, using outputs that remain unspent (thus increasing UTXO set), or data embedded in scriptPubKeys or non-standard outputs. A cleaner standard behavior is more predictable and safer. • They trust the fee market to disincentivize abusive behavior: if someone embeds megabytes of arbitrary data, that increases their transaction size; fees will scale. If mempools get congested, miners will likely ignore low fee data-heavy transactions, reducing abuse. • They argue for maximal flexibility for users, respecting Bitcoin’s permissionless, censorship-resistant ethos. Limiting data via policy is a kind of self-censorship; if users want to put data in, letting them do it via OP_RETURN is more transparent and standardized. • Node operators can still configure stricter limits. So the default is more permissive, but it doesn’t force everyone to accept large payloads if they don’t want to. It’s about making the default more aligned with reality. • They also argue that allowing larger OP_RETURNs “on the books” means better tooling, better standards, and possibly less reliance on special-case APIs or proprietary services to embed data. That could decentralize those use cases. ⸻ What “100k” vs “~4 MB / block weight” Means • Some reports state that the merged pull request sets a new default datacarrier limit around 100,000 bytes (~100 kB) for OP_RETURN outputs.  • Others report that the limit is effectively removed, with data constrained by overall transaction / block size limits (so maybe up to ~4 MB weight, depending on how many OP_RETURN outputs one adds).  • The difference matters: 100 kB is large vs 80 bytes but still somewhat modest vs megabytes. A full block (in weight or serialized size) caps the upper bound anyway, so OP_RETURN is bounded by block limits even if policy allows it. ⸻ Summary of the Core Devs’ Justification Putting together all the developer arguments, the core position is roughly: The 80-byte limit for OP_RETURN is an antiquated policy that causes more harm than good via workarounds, contributes (indirectly) to UTXO bloat, and misaligns node relay policy with what miners already accept. Removing or raising it improves standards, flexibility, and preserves cleaner on-chain data embedding with less collateral damage. By letting node operators enforce stricter limits locally, we offer both permissiveness by default and configurability. The fee market (plus mempool eviction, relay policies) will serve as economic deterrents against abuse. So what I get out of all this is, Devs are wanting standardisation for relays. This all seems to be a house keeping thing. At least now I get their reasons So put crap in a pruneable place or continue the hackathon.
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GrunkleBitcoin 3 months ago
I’m using Knots because of datum gateway. Is there a way to use core the same way? I’m have a feeling I’m being my used through fear. I tend to go against that play.
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GrunkleBitcoin 3 months ago
There is only one thing about this earth. Opinions, beliefs, groups, identity, wants, desires all are secondary to this one thing. It is everything. LIFE image
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GrunkleBitcoin 3 months ago
I have this feeling that I’m being play. Like when I was young in The 60’s. A series of assassinations moving a sociaty in a certain direction. Just a feeling.
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GrunkleBitcoin 3 months ago
I have come to the realization. I am a user. I do not consume.
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
Just read Dark Matter. Since I don't read that much. I usually fall asleep or just get bored with a book. However Dark Matter was great. I did neither. It kept me interested in the characters and story line image movement was perfect.
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
Common Money To the Youth of America: Awaken to Your Financial Revolution Fellow young Americans—students burdened by loans that chain your futures, gig workers scraping by in an economy that devours your earnings, dreamers staring at skyrocketing rents and vanishing opportunities—hear me! You, the generation born into screens and streams, algorithms and apps, are the heirs to a legacy of rebellion. Just as the youth of 1776—barely out of their teens, apprentices and farmers, sons and daughters of liberty—rose against the iron grip of a distant king, so must you rise against the invisible tyrants of today: the bankers, the bureaucrats, and the broken system of debt-based fiat money that steals your wealth before you even earn it. I write not as some distant scholar or suited economist, but as a voice echoing from the spirit of Thomas Paine, who in Common Sense ignited the fire of independence with words plain and fierce. That pamphlet was no dusty tome; it was a thunderclap, a call to the common folk to shatter the chains of monarchy. Today, in this age of digital dawn, I offer you Common Money: a manifesto for financial freedom, a blueprint to dismantle the debt empire and rebuild with sound money—money that belongs to the people, not the parasites. You, the youth, are the revolutionaries now. The old guard clings to their crumbling thrones; it is your energy, your innovation, your unyielding spirit that will forge a new era. Let us begin. The Chains of Fiat: A System Built on Sand and Shadows Imagine this: Every dollar in your pocket, every digit in your bank app, is not born from value created by human hands, but conjured from thin air by a cabal of central bankers. This is the fiat system—a house of cards erected on debt, where money is printed endlessly, backed by nothing but promises and power. It is a modern monarchy, where the Federal Reserve plays king, inflating the currency to fund endless wars, bail out billionaires, and erode the sweat of your labor. You feel it, don’t you? That student loan ballooning with interest, devouring your first paycheck before you taste freedom. That grocery bill climbing while your wage stagnates, inflation whispering like a thief in the night, stealing 5%, 10%, 20% of your purchasing power each year. Why? Because fiat money is designed to devalue. It’s a tool of control: Governments borrow trillions, printing money to pay debts, but the bill lands on you—the young, the working, the aspiring. The rich? They hoard assets that rise with inflation—stocks, real estate, gold—while you drown in depreciating dollars. This is no accident; it’s tyranny disguised as stability. In the revolutionary days, King George taxed without representation, siphoning wealth across the ocean. Today, the fiat overlords tax through inflation, a silent levy that hits the poor and young hardest. Your grandparents’ savings bought homes; yours buy lattes. And the debt? Oh, the national debt—a monstrous $35 trillion behemoth, growing like a cancer, promising you a future of austerity while the elite feast. This system breeds inequality, crushes innovation, and mocks the American dream. It turns free citizens into serfs, forever chasing a currency that slips through their fingers like smoke. But hear this, young rebels: It doesn’t have to be this way. The fiat farce is not eternal law; it’s a construct, fragile and failing. The cracks show—hyperinflation in nations like Venezuela, crypto rising as a digital revolt, people fleeing to Bitcoin and gold as shields against the storm. You, with your apps and algorithms, your memes and movements, are poised to topple it. Why bow to a system that betrays you? Rise, and claim what is rightfully yours: sound money. The Dawn of Sound Money: Principles of True Freedom What is sound money, you ask? It is money with integrity—backed by real value, limited in supply, immune to the whims of politicians and printers. Think gold, silver, or even decentralized digital assets like cryptocurrencies, where scarcity is coded in, not conjured up. Sound money is honest: It can’t be inflated at will, can’t be manipulated to favor the few. It’s money for the common people—common money—where your savings hold their worth, your work builds real wealth, and opportunity flows to all. Picture a world reborn: No more endless debt cycles. Governments must live within their means, taxing transparently instead of inflating secretly. Your paycheck buys more tomorrow than today, rewarding savers, not spenders. Entrepreneurs like you launch startups without fearing currency crashes; innovators build without the boot of bureaucracy on their necks. Sound money decentralizes power—blockchain ledgers open to all, no central bank dictating from ivory towers. It’s the financial equivalent of the Constitution: checks and balances etched in code and commodity. This isn’t fantasy; it’s proven. History whispers of golden ages—when currencies were tied to gold, economies boomed with stability. The American revolutionaries fought for self-determination; sound money is that in economic form. It empowers you, the youth, to inherit a nation of prosperity, not poverty. No more generational theft, where boomers’ excesses saddle you with trillions. Instead, a system that amplifies your potential: Invest in your ideas, save for your dreams, trade freely across borders without fiat friction. And the beauty? You are already the vanguard. Your generation embraces crypto wallets, NFTs, DeFi—tools of the sound money revolution. You’ve seen fiat fail in real-time: Meme stocks exposing Wall Street’s rigging, Bitcoin surging as a hedge against madness. This is your moment. Sound money isn’t just economics; it’s liberation. It frees you from the debt dungeon, unleashes creativity, and restores dignity to the dollar. Why settle for shadows when you can seize the substance? The Call to Arms: Your Revolution Awaits How do we forge this path? It begins with you—demanding change, educating your peers, voting with your wallets. Shun the fiat traps: Ditch credit card debt, stack sound assets like gold or crypto, build communities around decentralized finance. Remember the revolutionaries: They were outgunned, outnumbered, but their passion prevailed. You have tools they dreamed of—social media to mobilize millions, code to create currencies, data to debunk the lies. Let “Common Money” be your rallying cry. Share it, debate it, live it. The old system crumbles under its own weight; your energy will bury it. To the doubters: “It’s too radical,” they say. Was independence not radical? “It can’t be done.” Yet empires fell to farmer militias. You, the youth, are the force of change—unscarred by compromise, fueled by injustice seen daily. Embrace this fight; your future demands it. A New Birth of Freedom Young Americans, the hour is yours. Cast off the fiat fetters; embrace common money—the sound foundation for a just society. Let this be the spark that ignites your revolution, as Common Sense ignited theirs. Prosperity awaits not in the halls of power, but in your hands. Rise, rebel, reclaim! For in sound money lies the true American promise: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of un inflatable happiness.
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
This is the 80’s all over again. Networks not being able to talk to one another. Because of hardware and protocol issues. Lora vs Bluetooth. Beta vs VHS Brat pack vs Cyberpunks now that would be a good death match.
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
In the mirror of your financial reality is engraved a symbol of hope. Use it wisely. image
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
Bitcoin’s political pit Staking BTC Governmental influence You can make money staking crypto Crypto will keep the dollar strong. Ugh. Messaging is getting blurry.
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
Why is lighting down 2000 BTC since last I checked. WHY IS THE SKY BLUE?
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
What fits better with this equation? Ethereum or Bitcoin? Wealth=Power=Control. Same ol’ same ok’ Or something completely different?
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GrunkleBitcoin 4 months ago
Wrench meet the Thwart..er. I think 2x4 beats wrench in roshambo. image