Okay but again every relay that they can reach…. A user can run a personal relay and be using nostr and be unreachable technically speaking

It depends... is the relay showing up in any relay hint in the network? Are you including that relay in your relay lists? If so, they are already using it. Clients usually put the first relay as a hint to help other clients find events they they cite/reply/zap etc. There are 1000s of personal relays in these hints. Attackers then just connect to your relay and download everything. If a regular nostr client can see it, it is very likely that lots of other people can see it too. Especially zaps that go to everybody's inbox relays so that it shows up in the Zap counter in every app.

Right agree and I respect you very much (all of you, as builders) but if anything I think you’re supporting my OP which is that LN like zaps are native to the nostr protocol which IS fundamentally NOT as persistent as the Bitcoin blockchain The minute you construct that bridge it changes the persistence and transparency of the data These things were specifically discussed by Satoshi

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