oh I argue with those people too it's okay to have smaller, more fractured groups that identify by niche interests. smaller groups that compete or cooperate on the basis of *the effectiveness of their ideas* is a better social outcome than large groups driven by herd mentality. but this is maximally effective if people are actually thinking critically and creating views that map to their observations.

I think to have success with changing these people's minds, one would need to offer a framing of tangible benefits. Like for instance if they were to attempt navigating the ocean by the stars.

since the benefits are primarily social as you pointed out I think that's unlikely to be effective. like covid hysteria, it's mostly just flag waving and group identification.