Maybe. It is happening.

I guess I should just by ETH then 😂. Bitcoin is no longer conservative.

Bip 110 is super conservative. It takes us back to basics. Thats one way I see it.

Yes. Which is why it must be temporary...

I think keeping bitcoin simple is great. Everything is temporary. This even if this wasn't explicitly made to be temporary, we can Kwaus make changes, right? Bitcoin is alive.

You went straight to the heart of where we actually disagree: metaphysics. I don’t see Bitcoin as a living organism that “changes itself to thwart attacks”; I see it as something more foundational than that, a fixed substrate of block time and block space on which a digital‑native civilization can live and evolve. In that frame, we (humans, miners, apps, cultures) are the living things. Bitcoin’s job is to be the reliable physics those living systems adapt within, not to constantly adapt its own physics in response to every conflict. I think you’re right that Bitcoin started in a very anarchic governance phase, and you’re also right to push back against it sliding quietly into a pure technocratic regime where a small center steers everything via Core defaults. Where I diverge from both BIP‑110 and v30 is that each, in different ways, treats the base layer as a policy instrument—one via consensus, one via powerful defaults, rather than as almost‑untouchable ground truth for anyone who wants to verify. It may be that Bitcoin isn’t yet in the “civilization substrate” phase I’m describing, and that the 110 vs v30 struggle is part of how its future governance form gets clarified. I can respect the role you and Luke are playing in the here‑and‑now; I’m just aiming at a different end state: consensus rules that ossify into boring physics, cheap verification for as many humans and agents as possible, and culture/policy carrying the weight of our disagreements about how to use valid blockspace.

"reliable physics"...bip 110 is part of that reliability.

jfc sorry but both of you should stfu

I don’t believe Bitcoin is a living system; my frame is that it is more fundamental than that. It functions as a fixed, globally shared digital‑physics substrate, a consensus model of time and state in computational space, around which users and their agents, and possibly future sovereign machines, coordinate, transact, and construct higher‑order digital institutions and, over time, a digital civilization. You can’t build reliable architectures on shifting sands. View quoted note →