hm i finally wrapped my head around what's happening with bip-110 @Piotr here's the rundown:
it basically doesn't affect monetary transactions. they get relayed on both sides.
the spammy ones, won't be mined by bip-110 enforcing nodes. wallets will have to broadcast harder to get them to arrive at miners whose mempools don't reject them.
bip-110 enforcing nodes don't reject the blocks with spam in them, they just will not spend from the spammy utxos if they are used by a miner, ie, the transactions will propagate a bit more slowly to find nodes that are relaying them. once they do, they will persist until someone mines them or the mempool prunes them out due to age.
i'm not sure what any of this achieves but i just don't like the fact that bip-110 influencoors now become the gatekeepers for uasf for nodes. spam or no, it's prejudicial against *user activated soft forks*. i mean, same same, it's not like core has been famous for being nice towards uasf ever, including the original inception of segwit which used the technique for the first time, users made transactions, and miners upgraded them because exchanges were accepting them and thus there was fees dangling like carrots.
so, in summary, nothing really happens if you are just using bitcoin for onchain spends or opening lightning channels. it's only if you want to make ordinals and such that anything will be different, and even then, at best it maybe delays a transaction getting into a block sometimes. i suppose core will already be accounting for this in their wallet broadcast so that they preferentially send to nodes that aren't running bip-110 but mostly it's just a mass action about mempool.
really nothing to be concerned about. no coins will be lost. there will not be a fork. it remains to be see what effect it has on the running 12% or so of block space being occupied by these spammy transactions.
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Yea go BIP-110
yeah, idk, it feels like people gathering in city squares with banners complaining about people who are walking past them except there's police manning barriers and it's not physical and nothing will actually happen except a lot of insults being hurled across the barrier.
I see it as an immune reaction to the slow corruption of block space towards arbitrary data. It came a long way.
It is. My concern is that there are "two sides" being developed.
I'd rather it was a barnyard brawl with more involved.
I'm not comfortable with there only being two implementations at this point. Why are there no other options?
But, I am glad for the controversy since I'm learning more and finally kicked my own butt to run my own node finally.
yeah, that's the thing i don't like about bip-110. in clause 3 of the rules it enforces, they don't allow spending of "unrecognised" witness or tapleaf versions. well idc about tapleaf, fuck taproot. but UASF *means* creating "unrecognised" witness program versions and anyone intending to do that has to either patch their node to lift that restriction for their "recognised" witness program version or use another fork of the node or version or whatever. it's just silly because - taproot is the problem. neither dathonohm nor lukedashjr think there is a problem with taproot, with its lack of hashed pubkey, or, fundamentally, tapscript witness code. just not "big" witnesses. they also don't seem to care to touch the idea that witness discount should never have applied to taproot in the first place. the witness discount was originally sold as an incentive for people to move their utxos to segwit, and make them secure against blind signers - which can be tricked by legacy transactions to sign a transaction the user doesn't intend.
so it all smells fishy to me. acting as presumed gatekeepers for uasf. not rejecting taproot or taproot witness discount. the whole root of the ordinals problem is precisely the taproot witness discount. the end.
This is giving me a lot to understand as... I really don't have the context for it.
My simple understanding is "ordinals bad" and keeping op_return smol helps keep Bitcoin money. I know that's too simplistic, but, it's my start.
yeah, that's why a lot of people are running bip-110. they don't even understand what uasf is. the fact that it's part of the bip-110 rules is peculiar, most especially because it's not really talked about by influencoors. the implication is uasf bad. there is bip-360 floating around, but they haven't declared flag day yet. it's a merkle tree based quantum resistant signature transaction. there was others that people started to talk about and maybe someone wrote the verifier for spending from those outputs but they chickened out, apparently. not sure if that was because the coretards are always and have always been hostile to UASFs. core opposed segwit, also. it happened anyway. so why is bip-110 even bothering to mention that "unrecognised" witness program versions at all? just why? it's a political statement not a protocol statement. "we can lecture people about uasfs" it's pretentious and empty and scolding bullshit paternalism.
This just makes me less than happy to hear. 😑
in shorter words, core and bip-110 both seem to agree uasf bad.
i think that is significant. core wants to not have competition to replace taproot. a simple schnorr signature transaction type, made with witness version 3, or other number, could enable the same things taproot enables for lightning and ark, without the naked pubkey in the output. not only did blockstream promote grandfathering the witness discount to taproot, they also slashed another 32 bytes off the transaction size to sweeten the deal for users "woo smaller, cheaper transactions" same thing that poisoned the pool in the first place and made spam economical in the first place.
so, it's all hypocrisy in my view. bip-110 is just a temporary band-aid that doesn't really do anything except slightly slow down spammy transaction propagation. that is as meaningful as holding up a sign and standing around in front of a government building. it's not bitcoin-like behaviour, it's bootlicker behaviour. ON BOTH SIDES.
yeah, and i got clown reacted by luke for talking about this. fuck that guy. as far as i'm concerned everything i see is just a coretard wearing an antispam costume. promoting action that means nothing and changes nothing, and after it stops, what then. do we continue to block new witness programs? is this like a temporary government program?
I bookmarked this. Thank you.
Yeah. I can see that. The roots of this conflict are poison to both sides of that argument.
I'm. Still sticking with running knots since it does address a few things, and, anecdotally from others, it is more stable in actually running.
yeah, i see no harm in not relaying trash. but a credible solution is new transaction types. so i will be building them. creating a nostr relay for discussion, getting others to run relays that broadcast to each other. writing a better client for technical stuff, and filtering bullshit out. paid relays, has to be self standing. big nostr and bitcoin don't want plebs using their power, i want to hep people understand they can, and can make a difference, not just be a crowd of monkey cultists throwing shit at each other.