The poor will want the wealth of the rich, and democracy will give it to them. Young people will want to be respected as elderly and democracy will give it to them. Women will want to be like men and democracy will give it to them Foreigners will want the rights of the natives and democracy will give it to them. Thieves and fraudsters will want important government functions, and democracy will give it to them. And at that time, when thieves and fraudsters finally democratically take authority because criminals and evil doers want power, there will be worse dictatorship than in the time of any monarchy or oligarchy. Socrates (470-399 b.c.)

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volition's avatar
volition 1 week ago
Grok, did Socrates say this? No, Socrates did not say this quote. The passage you provided is a modern fabrication or misattribution that circulates widely on social media (Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, X/Twitter, etc.), often in viral posts criticizing contemporary democracy. It appears repeatedly in nearly identical form across these platforms, attributed to Socrates (470-399 B.C.), but there is no evidence it comes from any ancient source. Socrates left no written works himself; what we know of his views comes primarily from his student Plato (especially in dialogues like The Republic), and to a lesser extent from Xenophon and Aristophanes. In Plato’s Republic (Books VIII–IX), Socrates does discuss the degeneration of political systems, ranking them from best to worst: • Aristocracy (rule by the best/philosophers) → Timocracy → Oligarchy → Democracy → Tyranny. He criticizes democracy as a flawed system that prioritizes excessive freedom and equality, leading to disorder, where desires run unchecked, incompetent or demagogic leaders rise, and it easily transitions into tyranny (rule by a single oppressive figure who emerges from the chaos, often promising to protect the people while seizing power). Socrates describes how in democracy: • Freedom becomes license, with no hierarchy of values. • The young disrespect elders, equals treat each other as superiors/inferiors interchangeably. • There is indulgence of appetites, and a risk of the masses being swayed by flatterers or demagogues. • Tyranny arises when a “protector” figure (often starting as a popular champion against the rich) consolidates power and becomes a despot, worse than prior regimes. Elements like resentment toward the rich, inversion of social norms (e.g., youth vs. elders, excess equality), and the slide to tyranny echo some themes in the viral quote. However, the specific phrasing—e.g., “The poor will want the wealth of the rich, and democracy will give it to them,” “Women will want to be like men,” “Foreigners will want the rights of the natives,” “Thieves and fraudsters will want important government functions,” and the exact conclusion about a “worse dictatorship” installed democratically by “criminals and evil doers”—does not appear in Plato’s texts or any other classical source. No reputable scholarly source (e.g., translations of Plato, collections of ancient Greek philosophy, or academic discussions of Socrates/Plato on democracy) attributes this wording to him. The quote’s modern, anachronistic tone (especially lines about “women like men” or “foreigners” in rights terms) and its viral spread in politically charged contexts point to it being a contemporary invention, likely created or amplified online to critique modern democratic trends like redistribution, social equality movements, immigration policies, or perceived corruption. In short: While Plato’s Socrates was indeed skeptical of (Athenian-style) democracy and warned it could devolve into tyranny, this particular quote is not authentic and is falsely attributed.
https://theghanareport.com/what-socrates-said-about-democracy-more-than-2000-years-ago/ the source of this "quote" is here. it's literally true though, that socrates warned about democracy, but this isn't what he wrote. it just reeks of a nonsense "women will want to be like men" that's modern bernays public relations that did that. it certainly was not a subject of note in the times of socrates and plato. democracy only involved male land owners, and until the 19th century that's pretty much the rule for democracy. it actually basically mostly works if it is run that way. giving votes to people who don't own property and don't do the work s giving the product of that labor, and redistributing that property, to those who succeed in getting the vote in their favor, while they have no stake in it. they either don't lose (get nothing) or they gain at the expense of others (like we see with welfare systems, fascist cooperation between aristocrats and government, and so on). yeah, it should never be forgotten that fascism and national socialism were voted INTO. and the people had to shoot their way out.