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JackTheMimic 2 months ago
Using money is a public act. That's the thing. You're talking about a system in which you go out into public and ask everyone around you to preserve your privacy. It is not something that is possible because there are counter parties who also know you are trying to transact with them. Privacy is selectively revealing yourself to trusted parties. And the problem with that is merchants are never trusted parties. That is the whole rationale behind having trustless money. Treat privacy like you treat anything else. When you're walking down the street, you carry a weapon because the average thug can be repelled with a weapon. But if you think your privacy precautions are going to save you from a nation state, you are sorely mistaken. Obscurity and pseudonymous techniques are the equivalent of carrying a weapon with you. As for your premise, that digital surveillance is the norm. It isn't the norm of humanity, it is the norm of a centralized monetary system. And again, it's not that Bitcoin is not private or at least obscured. The emergence of Bitcoin is trying to reconcile a centralized system against a decentralized one. The only reason anybody can tie an identity to a Bitcoin address is because of the fiat on-ramps and off-ramps using Bitcoin. If I mine Bitcoin or do a job for someone and receive the payment in Bitcoin, there's nothing tying my identity to that address. That is just a holdover of people trying to transfer their wealth from the controlled system to the decentralized one.

Replies (6)

no. a transaction is between me and my counterparty. it isnt "a public act" unless you broadcast it to a transparent chain that anyone with Internet access can audit. there's never going to be a time where Authority just decides to NOT surveil everyone's transparent and publicly recorded transactions. it doesn't depend on the existence of fiat either, they're still coming for their taxes. even if you live completely off their radar, on a transparent chain it only takes ONE merchant doxxing you to reveal your utxo cluster. we are obviously living in an age of increasing surveillance and the normalization of a state of no-privacy. it's not debatable. they're going to map the entire utxo set. Bitcoin pseudonymity only *decreases* with time.
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JackTheMimic 2 months ago
Let me rephrase so there's no pedantic gotcha: Overwhelmingly the most common way people can be identified by address is via fiat on ramps and off ramps. The agorist selling me soap and fucking beef jerky is not giving my info to the CIA, Square, Strike, and Coinbase are. Better? Okay. Ready? The shop can just not tie the transaction to the data! Example: For reporting purposes- the shop sold 15 widgets. The customer data is a separate ephemeral database. NO MATTER WHAT MONEY YOU USE THIS IS TRUE. Yes, including Monero. So, what's your point here? That using money is a public act (like I said). Or obscurity is a technique not part of the protocol because no matter the protocol the counterparty needs to be trusted? (Also like I said) In a mass adoption world if I got bitcoin, sent it to a single spend (non-deterministic) address and handed the keys to the shop owner where's the paper trail? This is a TECHNIQUE yet I preserve my anonymity. (again, something I said before)
JackTheMimic's avatar
JackTheMimic 2 months ago
A little primer for you on data: Public data- is data that you allow to be known by untrusted parties. Private data- is data you allow to be known by only trusted parties. Secret data- is data you allow to only be known by yourself. A transaction with a merchant is in the "public" sphere of data. I was not implying that every transaction is put in the newspaper and pushed onto people's Twitter feeds or something.
If paying with LN it's much harder depending how you're using it.
JackTheMimic's avatar
JackTheMimic 2 months ago
You literally don't know what you are talking about.