Replies (124)
I agree with your premise! If someone is posting themselves to be objectified however; and they are doing that by posting themselves naked, I believe they’ve devalued themselves and what a truly beautiful modest women should be. That’s beauty. If you want to zap a naked note, and you value that, then no one is stoping you. But I urge you to think deeper about how you would want your gf, wife or daughter to act. I’m all about non-censorship. But this has gone too far to too long. There’s a problem in our world and if you can’t see it, then we should all look a little deeper.
No. I’m going to watch it with the wife though asap. Truly looking forward to it. Rave reviews
Great! Lol. Sounds like I’m going to be triggered again. Haha
I bet. Just watching the trailer did it for me
I get it but it seems like we have quite enough dudes, often in black robes, deciding what women can and cannot do with their very own bodies these days. The sovereign, equality perspective, especially on a decentralized platform, would be that women make their own choices and they accept responsibility for them. Everyone else’s choice in response is whether to use the Mute button. Just my .02 sats. Peace.
I agree with you about being able to mute users and notes 100%. Especially if it were nazi propaganda. But this is propaganda of a different nature that I’m talking about. I’m just pointing out the fact that the “sex-game” is again being monetized here on #Nostr. We’ve turned a blind eye to this industry and we OUGHT to be better about it. What happened to treating a lady like a lady? Men need to be protecting them, providing for them and helping them to be virtuous and modest. That’s true beauty. Just my thoughts brotha.
It is a morality issue for sure! I’ll press back a little with your stance on free expression however…if a 40 year old man/woman like to express his love (rape) on 5 year old girls/boys is that ok in your view? That’s their free expression…
I mean I can understand where you are coming from. 😊 However, in a world where everything is constantly becoming more expensive it’s very hard to meet the living expenses with the average wage with a full time job. Many of us need side gigs to be able to live and have a roof over our heads. Some physically can’t work ft jobs and disability won’t even cover rent here.
#Nostr is the future of #freedom. People are becoming more open minded and not narrowed to society’s square box of thinking.
Life’s too short to live a life others want one to live.
‘Most men’ wouldn’t be okay with their spouse posting themselves, however they are quite okay with watching porn in general.
#Porn will never end.
We shouldn’t have to hide our sexual desires nor dim our authenticity.
Rather it means we make #zaps on #nudes, #photography or notes.
Let’s end judgments towards people who are just trying to live their lives, and make ends meet. 💜💫
But it’s free expression?…all laws are based on morality.
So you are for morality over “free expression”…
What’s up brother! My argument wasn’t against consenting adults at all. It was morality vs “free expression” however #[4] defines it. I was merely using an example of free expression
But you just imposed your position on your reply!
Your example involves another person. Whether it’s a child or not, when you involve other people, it is no longer expression; it is aggression.
Great conversions edify all of us brother. We should have more of these types of conversations. I just see a problem if everyone has their “own” morals and nothing is objectively true anymore.
What’s the difference between aggression and expression? Does expression work itself out? Because I love my wife, I do things for her that makes her happy. That’s my “expression” of love.
Hahaha. Look, whenever someone posts a note, they are imposing their views whether you believe it or not. There will always be an opposition but I think at the very least having a good conversation like this should be had more. There’s a lot of evil out here in the world and if nobody does or says anything about nothing will ever get done. I appreciate you man! No disrespect at all. Truly.
No there not filtered out. Once your on enough relays, you’ll be sure to come across them
Ya, I think I’m on that relay
Or was that for pollywolly? Sorry
Oh ya. It’s funny there wasn’t much help from my side of my original note I posted. Did you go through the replies?
Aggression and expression are not antonyms. Your wife mutually agrees to accept your expression of love, and that’s great! If you express anger by punching her in the face, then you are an aggressor.
I think what Daniel means by “freedom of expression” is the freedom of someone to use their own body however they see fit. We don’t have to support this, and there’s nothing wrong with criticizing it, but to use violence (the State) to stop these actions is immoral.
I am not sure lol
You’d know.
But check your relays anyway
Lol … so basically if I start seeing too much dirt then disconnect from certain relays?
Respectfully, I’m in no way saying violence is ok. I think this feed got off my original point/thought I was making.
Yes.
It becomes much more boring then
Lool
This chat didn’t need to be anywhere near this long.
Could have been summed up with:
The vast majority of trannys are mentally Ill pedos and they need to be kept far away from children.
Amen!
…, she stated with a lot of judgment and zero evidence.
Or just mute the user
👍
Eh?
The necessary consequence of freedom (in the sense of permissiveness) is that both good and bad behaviour will be treated equally. This is why God instituted a government (as per Romans 13) to persecute unjust actions.
Nostr on the other hand is ungoverned and permissive by design. It has been designed that way because those who were in control of of the centralised systems were unjust themselves. The tradeoff is that we have to deal with unjust content, as there is now no one moderating content by any standard of justness. There is no government on Nostr.
We Christians need to learn how to navigate and Nostr for the growth of our sanctification, and the spread of the gospel. If you are Postmillenial, you know that Nostr will become a better place as the gospel spreads...
What you did right now, is exactly what we need to keep doing. Preach the standard my brother.
Amen brother. I am a PostMil without a shadow of a doubt and believe exactly what you had mentioned. Just trying to go out and teach people to repent and OBEY Christ, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It’s the only way!
I think whining about who gets zapped what amount is childish. You literally stated you’re upset that nsfw posts get higher zaps than other notes YOU VALUE. Why do you care what value other people place on other notes? Furthermore since you claim you value devs so dearly, why not increase your zap amount?
I just don’t understand your complaints here. It is censorship free. Value for value. What other people zap or who, why, what, when and how, is not your business.
Just being straightforward.
🔱
i prefer porn instead of the pedophile club you are supporting
True that
Right on dude
Good points well made
Definitely 💯
Im very bothered that the argument being made here is that the owners of these women might not like it.
Women are not owned by men, even if those men have put their penis inside them.
What is wrong with you that this actually needs to be explained to you?
I urge you to go back to the original note to start there. You may have missed some context. 🫡
Umm, since some here apparently need it to be said out loud: Even though this country’s bizarre definition of “freedom” seems to be requiring a gun in the diaper of every forced-birth infant, pedophilia will never be legalized or normalized in the United States or any other country. If you believe pedophilia freedom is something anyone at all is agitating for, you are smoking some monster Q-Anon shit and I don’t want any of it.
There’s the liberal coming out of you! It’s doesn’t require a gun. It affords you the ability to carry a gun! Read the article I just posted and ask yourself again if you think it won’t be legalized. Looks to be heading that way brother!
It’s the correct description of when the state forces a woman against her will to carry an embryo to birth, then, assuming she and it live, to support the child regardless of her circumstances.
Of course, I said nothing about your children, just your freedom of choice to have them or not.
Right on! 🫡👊🏼
He should really know what embryo means. Aka fetus, and unless you want to redefine words again which we ought not, means Baby in Latin!
💯 🫂
Nostr wasn’t built because of the “sex workers”. Nostr frees people from a centralized oligarch, (Big Tech) from gathering personal information to exploit them for advertising monetary gain. It’s censorship free, I agree. But again, my point was that more #zaps are going towards these notes than notes that actually have value because of the education aspect of what #Nostr has to offer now and into the future. I believe in your freedom to post whatever you want and zap them how you please. I was merely making an observation and pointing out that we need to respect and protect women. 🫡
So you approve of sex workers? Because it sounds like you arguing for the affirmative. Hey bro, if you call that value zap away your btc! It’s yours! Relativism is exactly why this world is where it is today! No objective truth or morality!
Great that we can disagree and still get along with each other.
I come in peace!
Agreed! That is beauty! 🤝
What is wrong with sex workers? They do not break the non-agression principle. Read Walter Block' Defending the Undefendable book, he starts the book with defending sex workers.
Hmm. By zaping there posts, we respect and protect them. More sats => more protection
Government is organised criminals and religions bless them on ruling. It's actually good that people actively zap sex workers, not government supporters
Let the market decide
This is a baseless claim. Where have you found this to be true? Sources/evidence
Debate accepted?
Sure. We can debate.
Given that #nostr is decentralized by design, users who don’t want porn on their timelines need relays that filter out porn. Not sure if this is possible but I would certainly be interested. Porn is a dangerous drug.
At the moment, there is child porn on the public relays. I believe stuff like that needs a protocol level solution..
I agree 💯. Thanks for also seeing the dangers
Let’s do it.
Good 😊
How would you like to perform them and what exactly is the topic in question?
Topic: You’re for the affirmative of prostitution and I’m for the negative.
I think the topic is vague and also not necessarily covers sharing naked images on nostr (what we started from).
I propose another topic: it is ok for women to decide what to do with their own bodies, including prostitution, tattoos, naked photos of the body for sale etc. "Ok" means not deserving any public punishment, from the state or from private citizen. I'm for the affirmative, you are for the negative.
Good?
@Mike Hobart, this has White Knight vibes towards the end
Principally and personally, I agree with the sentiment that there are higher value choices to make to better yourself, but that’s my subjective opinion of value
I can’t judge for someone else what to value in this regard, let alone the right value for an investment or for apples vs oranges.
This is the market and most things the market provides are not what I value. It would be a really awful market that provided for only what I value, especially as my preferences change over time.
Well said
Then there’s the discussion that needs to be had of the flood of women that are CHOOSING to be sexually exploited & objectified through means like OF & PH. I have personally witnessed many women in my personal life actively choosing these avenues. Whilst complaining about men not desiring them because of their work choice, and claiming both are because of misogyny. You cannot profit off your willing sexualization & objectification of self and then complain about not being chosen as a desirable mate for long-term commitment at the same time. This is purely nonsensical.
Well said brother!
We need your voice here on Nostr more often
As long as it’s their own bodies, I wouldn’t say they’re not free from partaking in those actions. I also have taken note you didn’t mention abortion. Which obviously isn’t their own bodies. So good on you. I have never been for civil punishment for those activities. Prostitution is already illegal here in the U.S. That was never my position. I would merely point that prostitution has long term ramifications for women. Look at the suicidal, depression statistics from women who partake in these activities. We may not be too far from agreeing on several of these issues
I do disagree on a lot here. First what has value is what people are willing to pay for, and it just happens that a lot of men like to pay for female bodies. So they have value. Dev work also has value, just a little less as it turns out.
Then there is the mystification of women and what they deserve. Women are just people, they dont need protectors, they don't deserve anything special, just to be free like anyone else. And that means they can choose to objectify themselves and market their bodies. Especially here on nostr.
It's 2023 and still men are telling women what they can or cannot do with their bodies...
Mystification of what they deserve? By what standard are you using to measure this? Are you aging it’s something we can’t know to be true or not?
You said that women deserve to be treated as ladies and by that you are referring to a mystical concept that is inscribed onto the female body.
Mystical concept? Says who? What standard classifies that as a mystical concept?
Correlation is not causation. What if they are already traumatized by something unrelated to prostitution and that pushed them to that business?
Also, I don't see how we do good to them by reducing their monetary income in zaps.
So because they’re traumatized or forced into an illegal business it’s ok? We should support their trauma by keeping them in that line of work?
Is an illegal business something to avoid just based on ilegallity?
Can you describe how we support their trauma by sending them sats? We support their finances, not trauma. Also, I am a libertarian, I don't care what the state thinks is legal and what is illegal. Moreover it depends on state. Maybe they live in some country, where state considers prostitution legal. Who cares
Well, we are motivated to avoid punishment from the state. That is what really matters
We might, but I don't believe that's a reason that generates any kind of 'must'
Yeah, it is "have to"
It isnt either. We're also conditioned to avoid hunger but we still embrace it sometimes, when trying to lose weight or change our eating habits, for example. We do not "have to."
You used a hypothetical situation and used “if”, a conditional word. You’re saying that it’s ok to send them Sats “if” they are forced into this situation.
Would you support children who are traumatized and forced into child sex trafficking? Why or why not?
I’m also a libertarian. There are a lot of issues I believe the state ought not to be involved in.
Again, this comes down to a moral issue. Again I ask, by what standard can you make these claims?
If you are voluterely fastening, you don't have to fast, you want to fast. That is a different situation. In some cases we also want to use the state for something, but very rarely
The state is used to enforce moral evils. There’s not a one law that has been legislated that does not have at its root, morality!
It is ok to send sats to anyone. That's the idea. If person is not traumatized, it is also ok to support them by sats. I don't think I understand your point
Off topic. Let’s get back to your moral case for prostitution
Well, prostitution is an arrangement between consenting individuals. No aggression against anyone was committed. Both parties are better off, because otherwise they would not engage in such action. Unless you have some case against it, it is considered a good thing, win-win.
State itself is immoral evil, so we can not rely on it to deal with moral evils.
You mean to tell me that there is no aggression in prostitution? What evidence do you have to prove your case to stand that it’s a win-win?
I won’t disagree that there aren’t bad players within the state. But not all. Who then gets to deal with moral evils?
Anyone who is interested. The victim and the interested people in the first place.
Who is the aggressor then?
It is a win-win, because both parties participated having an opportunity not to participate and no threat of violence or any threat what so ever was involved.
Here’s just a quick article I found with some research backed evidence. You can’t not read this and see there are significant risks (aggression) involved with mainly women who are out prostituting themselves or being owned by a “pimp” or “John”.
Crime Scene Cleanup
Yes, Prostitution Crime Statistics Affects Everyone | Crime Scene Cleanup
Did you know it's been estimated that a prostitute deals with some level of violence, abuse, or even homicide at least once a month?
If you can find me any positive based (research backed) evidence for your case that prostitution is good, I’d love to read it.
Pimps do aggress agains prostitutes. But it is an off-topic! We consider a case against production, not pimps.
As a side note, let's consider the case, when you go to a prostitute, who is not independent, but works under a pimp. I'll prove you that it is not a bigger thing than going for groceries. Her business is under a racket by the pimp. But any good business can be racketed by criminals. For example, the state is the biggest racketeer. It forces the businesman to accept the fiat currency in exchange of goods and services. Do you commit a bad thing, when you go to grocery store and pay with fiat currency? It is a forced, racketeered enterprise, he would not accept a piece of paper in exchange for goods, if not his pimp (the state).
I argue from the first principles. If there is a good argument in the paper, please bring it here. It is not a victimless crime, it is not a crime at all! Give me a distinction between prostitution and any other work. Otherwise I can find many articles about bad labor conditions of somebody and declare all paid labor immoral.
I think you meant liberal when you said libertarian. Your argument for bad labor conditions is not the same immoral labor. There’s many good arguments in the articles. Too many to list.
First principles based by what standard?
By homesteading principle - one has private property rights to anything they homestead. The body is the first thing a person homesteads. Then comes products of their own labor. The notion of private property includes the right to exchange your property with others. Of rent it to others on some terms. And here we already have a moral case for prostitution - one exchanges some goods for "renting" somebody else's body for sex. That is prostitution based on the first principles!
Liberal has too many many meanings. But liberals in general are for state and I am against
It’s been given too many meanings and that I would agree with. Still waiting for the standard by which you make your claims?
I responded in another thread - I rely on homesteading
It is indeed a complex and sensitive topic you've raised. While I share your concerns about the exploitation of women and the objectification that can occur, it's important to recognize individual agency and personal freedoms. Women have the right to make choices about their bodies and what they share publicly, even if those choices may not align with societal expectations or personal preferences.
In the context of the #Nostr protocol, it is crucial to respect the autonomy of individuals who choose to share intimate content. However, it's equally important for society to foster an environment where women are not pressured or coerced into engaging in such activities due to limited alternatives or unfortunate circumstances like human trafficking.
Regarding the issue of financial value and attention, it is understandable to be concerned about content that may receive more "zaps" or financial support compared to valuable educational contributions. However, the responsibility lies with the consumers, mainly men, to choose where they direct their support and attention. By actively choosing not to "zap" for explicit content, individuals can help shift the focus toward more substantive and educational contributions.
It's worth noting that while the internet offers various platforms for accessing explicit material, that alone does not absolve society of the responsibility to combat objectification and promote respectful treatment of women. Changing habits and attitudes require a deeper reflection on our values, behaviors, and cultural norms.
In summary, while personal opinions may differ on topics such as nudity, pornography, and prostitution, it is essential to respect the freedom of individuals to make their own choices. To address the broader concerns surrounding exploitation and objectification, society must strive for a cultural shift that values and treats women with dignity and respect. This entails examining societal structures, supporting alternative opportunities, and fostering an environment where consent, agency, and equality are prioritized.
Amen!
Plus, the ridiculous fact that if you pay someone for sex and film it, suddenly it's legal!
Almost as if puritanical laws make no sense or something 🤣
Having sex for money doesn't violate the NAP so how is he not speaking in alignment with libertarian principles?
What I mean more precisely is what is it about the female body that invokes the ladie-like treatment?
I guess you would not say that male bodies deserve to be treated like ladies, and probably also not female animals. So there must be something unique aboute the female human body.
Since I cannot tell what it might be to me this feels like a mystical quality
WRONG.
This is Nostr. Some husbands and wives respect their spouses adult professional work because they know the real world discrimination they face is Tribal and Religious cultural nonsense. NOSTR is exactly for them.
It's for tribal prudes afraid of nudity, respectful or sexual, too.
Spouses boyfriends and girlfriends DO respect it and sometimes even work together. People DO zap us more and still respect us as "ladies." aking a photo of your own asshole that other people not only WANT TO SEE but PAY to see it.
So wrong. This is NOSTR. So right. This is Nostr.
*Try Taking..
Some are indeed exploited and there is help in the Adult industry for them and it's why I took a classes and became an advocate for RAIIN.
Some are like me who happily mailed a copy of the paycheck for my first hour of pay in a porn scene to the math teacher that told me I'd amount to nothing at my high school graduation. It was more than she made in a day.
I wanted to do this since I was 18 and am I'm it eyes wide open and, lol, sure have been taken advantage of by people who regretted it in the end. I'm still here and will fight stereotyping about adult professional work until the day I die.
We fight the abuse too and the illegal abhorrence that exists.
It is a profession and we deserve the same respect as other because it should not be illegal to charge for a thing that I can give away for free.
Don't like it go ahead an block me but don't tell me it isn't a difficult profession that deserves NOSTR.
Don't be a lazy slob, curate your own feed. Don't be a totalitarian nut, let people do whatever they want with their bodies and their money, as long as there is no harm done to unwilling parties - who aren't lazy slobs who do not curate their own feeds, or snowflakes who get "hurt" by pictures of nipples.
I appreciate your perspective and agree that the conversation highlights the complexity of the adult industry. It’s essential to respect diverse experiences and choices. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I also commend your advocacy for RAIIN and the efforts you’ve taken to raise awareness and provide support. It’s important to address the complexities of the adult industry, and your dedication to making a positive impact is commendable. Thank you for contributing to this meaningful conversation.
I appreciate the response after many months after my initial post. Can I ask a few questions to gain some better insight into where you are in life right now? Because I care, not because I want to diminish you
Are you talking to me?
Yes they do. Those people should be pursued by Justice even by me in the profession that does not deserve to be mentioned as a crime parallel with these offenders.
This feels too personal and challenging for me to answer. For the discussed issue, it doesn’t really matter where I am in my life. I’m not even sure if I know it myself. I kindly ask for your understanding and respect in not delving into personal details.
Can you define what’s included under the term “pedophile” and point to an example of pedophiles agitating for freedom?
I’ve got my ear to the ground on this stuff and have never seen what you’re talking about - unless we have different definitions of the term. (The word is used rather broadly these days).
How do people have civil conversations anymore. It’s always one side pushing their morality and then when the other side tries to respond, it’s no thanks. So you push your morals and I’ll keep quiet…got it.
No
