Thread

I love it. Use Bitcoin. Go straight to jail. Do not collect 200 Picos.

definitely puts STNs "monero tracing" in perspective although tbf if the kid had spun up a LN node and received to it instead of on-chain, this wouldn't have happened. stupid kids.

It would fit nicely on Seth's fungibility graveyard But moneroleaks.xyz is a site about tracing monero, not about tracing bitcoin

Please point to something misleading on it

Yes I do, and since it is a very leaky medium, I criticize monero for putting so much data on it

"Unusable" except by the folks who arrested monero users in a bunch of different cases Look at the Case Studies section: moneroleaks.xyz

Lightning Network

All transactions are publicly visible, but identities are hidden behind addresses. — Satoshi Nakamoto

"If a solution was found, a much better, easier, and more convenient implementation of Bitcoin would be possible." -Satoshi Nakamoto

Custodial Lightning and LSPs don't give you privacy from third parties. How a vast majority use the network because of it's complexity.

Monero is a joke shitcoin with a broken privacy https://moneroleaks.xyz/ Monero is joke shitcoin that had countless hard forks too

Maybe read your own link. All of those cases involve KYC exchanges, colluding with swap services when they swapped to transparent chains like Bitcoin, and opsec mistakes where they revealed their IP address. Nothing to do with transacting on Monero. It upgrades and gets better over time. What a concept.

I read the link and it shows how Monero leaks information.

Then you have to work on your reading comprehension

Or you try to open your eyes and realize reality that Monero is a shitcoin with poor privacy.

GM Saberhagen. Fighting the endless battle I see

name - the nameless, is as confused as his name

He's pretty accurate from what I've seen. Didn't actually cross check with the article but willing to bet he's right.

🤭

i don't waste my time reading stuff from people who don't understand that pseudonymity is better than unauditable encrypted ledgers and there's a reason for why people use his favourite coin, being, to buy drugs, but anyone with serious money uses coinjoins to hide their stash. i find monero fanatics extremely tedious. they are shitcoiners. the end.

Absolutely spot on 🎯

Tedious is fair lol. They have fed-like energy to quibble over minutia til the cows come home. But, tend to be more "cypherpunk" and on average much more educated in the complex topics such as privacy and economics. TLDR they cool and most hold plenty of BTC anyway

yeah. that bleed-over is part of the reason why i'm not usually following people on the edge of that region of stupidity i don't mind whatever kink people are into and i don't follow anyone who posts often about their kink, but they plain out shit on bitcoin on a regular basis because it hasn't got ring signatures and they can jam it up their ring. bitcoin has no ring signatures for reasons they are oblivious enough to that they still think that privacy is an overriding element of a fiat-superceding monetary system. actual people who understand the ins and outs of encryption, systems theory, signals intelligence, distributed systems, asymmetric cryptography, psychology, and the theory of actually achieving the abolition of arbitrary violent power in society, understand that this is not helpful to anyone, and i'm going to opt out of reading and interacting with someone who gives these "fed-like" people a hearing, i'm done with it. i've been in this since 2012 and they are just straight wrong.

Free to do so. Haven't been around nearly as long and still find the conversation informative. I'll see you around in other threads :)

until i have a client that lets me block a conversation involving stupid people, even if people i follow are in it, this is how it be

It's been real 🥲

well, when you realise that the moment you out yourself to them as a bitcoiner and they start on that track, you'll start to understand why i have this opinion

I get it. You don't have to follow me if my engagement with some accounts bothers you (muting seems extreme). Each their own, but I'll still bet, article unread, that what saber claimed is true in this argument. Can bet sats if you like, not motivated enough to check otherwise

even a stopped clock etc all of the moneros on nostr that i have encountered are trolls

> All of those cases involve KYC exchanges, colluding with swap services when they swapped to transparent chains like Bitcoin, and opsec mistakes where they revealed their IP address. Nothing to do with transacting on Monero. You named 3 elements of the traces in the cited cases and then said that "nothing" involved the targets' XMR transactions. But you ignored the other elements of the traces, some of which *did* involve the targets' monero transactions. - In the case of the Columbian drug dealer, they were unable to get his ip address until *after* they traced his monero from the initial address, past an additional hop (possibly a churn), and *then* he leaked his ip address in a subsequent transaction. To trace the flow of funds through the possible-churn, they had to use the decoy elimination attack, which would not be possible except that monero opts to use decoys instead of encryption to protect sender privacy. That's "something to do with transacting on Monero." - In the case of Incognito Market, they used (1) the tx time that is revealed in every monero transaction and (2) the amount information that is revealed to the two parties involved. That allowed them to correlate his "buy" transaction with his "sell" transaction despite him moving the funds through a monero wallet before selling them. That's "something to do with transacting on Monero." - In the Finnish case, the Japanese case, the Archetyp case, and the Bitfinex case, the authorities acquired the targets' private keys. Then they could simply look up their transaction history on the blockchain and trace the flow of funds that way. Why? Because monero provably and permanently links the history of all of your transactions to your private keys. Unlike lightning, monero does not let you delete your transaction history. That's "something to do with transacting on Monero." So you're wrong. All of the cited cases involve the things you mention *as well as* other things that do involve transacting on monero, and the data leaked by doing so.

> LSPs don't give you privacy from third parties They do. LSPs cannot identify the sender, the recipient, the amount sent, or any of their users' base layer utxos. That's pretty good.

I guess it depends on a few things. LSPs can usually identify either the sender *or* receiver + amount. If both users are using the same LSP (or colluding LSPs) they can identify both sender *and* receiver + amount. https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix

>" In the case of the Columbian drug dealer, they were unable to get his ip address until *after* they traced his monero from the initial address..." In other words he exposed his IP address. Exactly what I said earlier. >"In the case of Incognito Market..." Swap service collusion + sent to a KYC exchange. I'm starting to notice a pattern here 🧐 >"In the Finnish case, the Japanese case, the Archetyp case, and the Bitfinex case, the authorities acquired the targets' private keys..." Yea. Thats how private keys work.

That's the joke, megamind 🧠 I'm suppose to believe we're all just too stupid and this guy is the self proclaimed smart one? lmfao

We're both muted now. Not sure what past yall had, but I messed up by talking to you. It's hard out here for an open-minded bitcoiner these days

I can understand muting me, but why did he mute you??? lol

GM btw 👋

For bringing dumb conversations into his feed. There's an explanation of sorts somewhere in the thread. Wouldn't take me up on betting if you were right or not though 🤷‍♀️

GM 😀

So dumb and not worth his time that he decided to have a whole conversation under it instead of ignoring it 🤷‍♂️

Eh, prob in a mood. And I engage with a lot of the acccounts he muted, so prob not just you, if that makes you feel better. Monero is good for being popular jeez

Not good*

As a Bitcoiner for 15 years I can tell you that those that are in it for the fiat gains, the censorship/banning and the non critical thinking, not realising how competition between Monero and Bitcoin is good for both are NEITHER Bitcoiners nor cypherpunks.

I have seen it over and over again that statists (unfortunately there are many these days in Bitcoin) are afraid of new ideas and projects that actually deliver valuable stuff. Becoming a statist is a warning sign that someone got out of touch with life itself and now relies on propaganda, (self-) censorship and in the states case extraction of value from others under violence.

Think my reply got lost due to bad connection. Damn. Lost me a bit on connection to statism, but agree the culture is a bit closed minded regarding interacting with "monero people." It's tiresome, not to mention embarsssing by proxy how often a self proclaimed maxi charges in with weak grasp of technicals and resorts to shouting down when they realize they are out of their depth. Anyway, nice to meet you. Send me a bitcoin, you have so many 🙏

Oh man, you had a good game going with the satoshi quotes. Why'd you blink?

You should have a Monero address in your profile.

Naw, I'm predictably BTC only, don't even know a single name of a monero wallet. Just enjoy chattin' with y'all on occasion.