A friend just called me and told me that @npub1sqzr...vk7v stopped supporting lightning and forced him on top to scan his face etc.
Any alternatives that I could recommend newcomers in the future to DCA?
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Replies (63)
@peachbitcoin and robosats
You can't set an auto-DCA because they are P2P market but you win on privacy, especially with robosats on tor!
@npub1sqn6...5net is less expensive than @peachbitcoin imo
bisq and robosats
Hey! Totally understand the concern. Here’s some context:
We recently removed the Lightning feature from the app to stay focused on its core mission: secure, self-custodial Bitcoin savings. Lightning is still a promising technology, but the current self-custodial experience just wasn’t reliable enough for our users. We’re keeping an eye on it and plan to revisit it once it matures.
As for the face scan, it’s part of our effort to comply with the new EU regulation DORA (Digital Operational Resilience Act). To protect users from fraud and identity theft, we now require biometric verification, but we do this WITHOUT storing any biometric data.
We use Keyless, a privacy-preserving solution that creates a cryptographic key using your facial scan locally on your device. That data is NEVER stored by us or anywhere else )not on our servers, not in the cloud). It’s just a way to verify that you are you, while keeping your privacy intact.
Robosats.
I'm sorry you have to comply with the EU.
I use Mt Pelerin / Bridge. I didn't need to KYC. Their lightning is custodial but you can open channels with their node and send them to your non-custodial lightning. On chain is non-custodial.
I've never tried bisq, I should.
You can find offer on robosats as low as 2% if you are fast enough 😅 Pretty good for no-KYC sats 🤙
On bisq you can even buy with a negative premium. Also, I like how it works : It is really decentralized, on Tor and It gives me the feeling to really use bitcoin because you have to make some transactions. Negative point : it is only on desktop (for now)
Azte.co
Yeah must admit back when I was using it a year ago, the Ln function was really unreliable. Can’t blame. But the UE compliance and regulation is getting ridiculous. Sadge.
I have just installed bisq. I must admit that it looks more complete than robosats, with all the stats and tweaks it's looks like a decentralized exchange while robosats or peach looks more like a simple market of classified ads.
There's only bitcoin on-chain on bisq right ? No lightning ?
Did you tried to buy XMR or stable there too ?
On chain only. I never did stable or xmr. But is possible to use them in theory
Thanks for your reply, if this is now mandatory for real then EU has fallen. Do other exchanges have implemented this as well?
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Bitaroo is best.
p2p.band
Good suggestions below. But in person p2p also should be considered
Yes! Nice to meet you javier 😉🤝
Bisq friend 😉⚡️
bisq robosats
Imho the best two by far
Idk, you should ask them :)
However, my message was to point out that although we have to be compliant with the rules, we have chosen the way that protects our users' data
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Pocket Bitcoin
Peach Bitcoin
Both based in Switzerland as Relai but without the limitations that Relai chose to have
I know it is easy for me to say it and harder for you to do as a business, but we need to find ways around such requirements.
I would not use a btc app which requires me to scan my face. I'd rather use a non EU company over VPN etc.
@npub1ex7m...vyt9 is a pretty good solution for newcomers.
1. Robosats to acquire bitcoin over lightning. 2. Then Boltz to send the sats to cold storage.
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Boltz | Non-Custodial Bitcoin Bridge
Swap between different Bitcoin layers while staying in full control. Fast and non-custodial Lightning / Bitcoin / Liquid / Rootstock swaps.
Why self custodial lightning, people might opt-in for custodial as well ?
Dora is bullshit. It was never to protect the user. It is to control the finacial institutions and their users and at the same time to protect the large players with the standards nobody can comply, except a few largest.
Ja. Und alle machen mit. Wie die Lemminge…
bullshit-o-meter going strong with this one.
PATRIOT Act vibes.
Peach Bitcoin and Pocket Bitcoin are based in Switzerland and don’t do this shit!
And Relai should work to improve its lightning service instead of simply cancelling it
Yes. The most simple, straightforward and sovereign way.
Yeah, no
You can swap directly from your Zeus Wallet LN node.
Does it requite KYC ?
KYCed
Looks like it's without KYC 🔥
Bitagent
Buy Bitcoin from your bank account to the wallet. Bitcoin vom Bankkonto auf die Wallet kaufen.
“To buy Bitcoin with Bitagent, you need a wallet with which you can sign a message with the private key of the Bitcoin address. The signature with the private key is proof that the address actually belongs to you.”
What? Why? 🚩
Good question, why @npub1qah2...lm40 ?
that's not KYC, that's AOPP. I think all Swiss-based CEXs have to use it. cc. @Neo ⚡️ 
BitBox Blog
AOP protocol: Making self custody easier
Each method to buy bitcoin comes with benefits and drawbacks. We explain the main differences and dive into how the Address Ownership Proof Protoco...
They don’t want newcomers in the future to DCA.
This is so fiat
D.O.R.A. it's fucking huge, I really like to know which part are you requested to comply. URL for anyone interested:
Regulation - 2022/2554 - EN - DORA - EUR-Lex
👀
Use Zeus, Phoenix or any other non-custodial wallet. You can buy non-kyc with Robosats, Peach, MtPelerin or Bisq.
I ditched Relai as soon as they removed the non-kyc option. Still use some services that require KYC but for some specific use cases only.
Azteco vouchers.
The EU is a no-go-zone
That seems not to be a criteria.
They should move outside eu
WE should move out.
But are you ready to surrender this land to Brussels?
Compliance Is Defiance®
Feel free to ask this to privacy@relai.app, as I’m not a lawyer 🙂
We had only implemented a third-party service (Breez SDK) within our application. Therefore, we had no direct control over its development
Hi Neo,
the signing of a message is the proof that you are the owner of the Bitcoin address, because you need the private key for that.
If you use the Bitagent Wallet that happens automaticly in the background.
If you bring your own Wallet you have to do it manually.
If you have a Bitbox02 it works automatically with AOPP.
Lightning Payout is possible to Zeus or Breez.
You need there also to sign a message on your lightning node Id, to prove that you are the owner of that lightning wallet
Would that be an excuse? That’s even worse!
BUILD!
Yeah guess so