Thread

We need incentive aligned relays. Relays that charge per kB second on disk, per kB second on RAM, per CPU cycle, ...

Probably can use something similar to bitchat https://github.com/permissionlesstech/bitchat/blob/main/relays/online_relays_gps.csv so maybe distribute the events on 5 relays depending on the region

That's not a pragmatic solution. If relays are not incentive aligned, relay providers will treat as spam what the author would have paid for, simply because the relay can't handle this user's demand. Relay operators now assume that a pubkey creates at max some dozens of events per day. If they charged according to hardware use, they wouldn't have to assume anything.

Would it not help to make running a relay super easy for people that want to Nostr autonomously. Then if I follow them their relay serves me. Or if they subscribe to a central relay that fetches their followed content for them, then the relay service knows to gobble my content from my relay for them. Why are we calling it a decentralized notes via relays solution with it being a pain in the ass to run a relay for even my own stuff in a non-IT way. User friendly clients yes. We deserve user friendly configurable relay capabilities too. I’d escrow for this bounty that’ll run on an Umbrel or Start9.

Every user running their own relay would be much worse UI than having a simple standar to use shared relays. It's the difference between needing one server per user without redundancy and needing one server for 10k average users with redundant storage. Why rent a 10gb server if you only need 100mb?

I can appreciate that. Is there any merit in my sentiment? Or is it wholly misguided and oversimplified?

Relays should be simpler to run independently of the issue at hands but with aligned incentives, relay runners wouldn't worry about nostr:nprofile1qqszw0ncsrfc6wd8lv3cal8cj4apkke8aqv3y75ys05h2st2p2g035spzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qydhwumn8ghj7mnjv4kxz7fwvvkhxar9d3kxzu3wdejhgtc9azv8n straining their relay. They would celebrate success, brag about nostr going exponential and get others to figure out how to get a piece of the relay pie aka how to drive down relay prices.

I suspect, nostr:nprofile1qqszw0ncsrfc6wd8lv3cal8cj4apkke8aqv3y75ys05h2st2p2g035spzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qydhwumn8ghj7mnjv4kxz7fwvvkhxar9d3kxzu3wdejhgtc9azv8n would happily eat a monthly server cost of $100 but right now, relays can't deal with this demand. You'd have to negotiate something to not get blocked as spam on a case by case basis. So why doe HH not run their own relay? I guess because they bought into the nostr narrative of not needing to do so and because they don't want to be in a position to censor users.

From what I understand, events are just a mirror of what's on their platform and then they publish it. Did I misunderstand?

Their last reason being the more important one that I landed on. But their users running relays easily could solve the issue. But I’m seeing that problems exist at both ends of centralized and 100% decentralized. The happy independent middle is where the solution is found I presume. I don’t have the nuance tech understanding of how the relays function as an ecosystem en mass to have this conv intelligently. But thanks for that extra explanation. It helps me continue to inch toward understanding it. 😎

That bares no relevance to my argument. Your important event might be my spam.

As first measure we will stop posting offers by now. Then, fine tune the publishing policy. Thank you for the report.

thank you 🙏