Reasons to spend bitcoin (incl. Lightning):
1/ It's more secure and private than filling out a form with personal information (e.g. credit card payment on some websites) or 1a/ handing over *credentials* to a waiter, or a POS machine that you don't trust. 1b/ The UI is therefore better (it's smoother)
2/ It's cheaper *maybe* for you, but specifically for the merchant, than credit cards
3/ It (quasi)-settles immediately in LN case and in 10 min on chain; card payments often take 60 days
4/ It has cash like properties but you can pay remotely and immediately
5/ It cannot be blocked by a payments provider
6/ There is no (realistic) limit how small or large the payment can be
7/ Every transaction, especially the more p2p ones, e.g. between friends, but also to companies, adds and improves bitcoin's privacy overall - consider that if we did nothing but move bitcoin to and from KYC exchanges, there would be zero privacy, independent of advanced cryptography. More business or personal transactions without KYC, the less information is in the onchain tracing.
8/ There is no global systemic downtime when some backend fails (this one is more debatable)
9/ Actually using bitcoin is how you learn its mechanics and will give you necessary expertise to not lose it, even if your primary goal is only saving.
10/ Using bitcoin makes it a better money, as you are participating in the process which makes it a viable form of money for others.
#spedn
Replies (34)
I’m ashamed it took me a few beats to understand the hashtag 🤦♂️
I’m tired of my credit card number getting stolen. Wife likes to buy stuff on random websites 😅
You aren’t autistic enough. Work harder 😂
I literally googled it and landed on some shady looking “unleash your electronic cash” wallet/app before it hit me
Zaps should be multi-blockchain. You only want Monero zaps? Only want fiat cbdc USDT zaps? Only want onchain BTC/lightning/cashu? All should be acceptable. Open competition between Zaps.
Ideally they'd also be interchangeable. So the recieving party always gets their desired Zap in wallet and the sender uses their desired type. Atomic swaps would be ideal.
Yes… absolutely. We pitch in with Coffee💎✌️⚡️ PM us and we Ship you some LE PEDALEUR ⚡️
Well said sir 🫡
People should be free to do whatever stupid thing they want to do, but doing this just complicates the experience for everyone and further it just doesn't make sense.
Clients would have to add code (=bugs) to handle this, UI would have to be redone to make this reasonable, it fractions the network into multiple pieces that will be harder to keep in sync, protocol becomes more complex to implement. Even if you are Monero or whatever supporter you should be able to see how this would hurt a lot of people and make the overall progress slower.
If you need the other coins for whatever reason then your wallet can do the swapping. Like Blink wallet allows you to swap sats for "stable" balance in the wallet. I bet Monero wallets do the same. If that's possible and easy then there are no reasons to update the whole stack just to add couple of these coins.
that sounds awesome, but lacks a list of reasons that answers the question why not spend Bitcoin
Look I'm all for spending on lightning, I've done literally thousands of transactions but let's strive to be accurate. Card payments do not take 60 days to settle
not sure, maybe charge backs can be 60 days out?
21 extra sats for #spedn
Great note Fren and ⚡ #Lightning network transactions are all of the things you stated and more. Imagine our future with #Nostr and Zaps ⚡⚡ integrated hand in hand and what we still will create that we don't yet have and haven't either thought up or been able to build yet. I love ❤️ #Nostr and my fellow Nostriches
Thank you! Need more thinking like this 💯
The list is complete as is.
There is no (good) reason not to use better money.
It certainly would not be simple, though I do think this is the "ideal" to strive for. Zapping should be a more universal and simple experience than any other digital payment currently existing.
If being realistic, with point 5 there is an issue if merchant uses custodial solutions to accept Bitcoin - most (if not all) of them involve AML and sometimes even KYC.
Unfortunately, custodial gateways are pretty common.
I haven’t quite squared away the issue of dust on the bitcoin blockchain with lightning…which presumably often comes back onto the time chain as dust…
That is true for LN, but LN is not the only potential user for Zaps.
No, the zaps spec specifically requires sending the transaction details (sender and receiver) to relays. Like that's literally the point of zaps. Read the spec for zaps I shared.
That's why I said that this doesn't really make sense.
I am proposing an expansion to the concept of Zaps. Anon Zaps or publicly relayed Zaps. Routing would depend on the asset zapped and user preference.
I could send direct P2P wallet Zaps or route through a publicly viewable route or route anon. Automatic signing to publicly prove Zap ownership.
I understand this is not the current concept of a Zap, but it is what should be developed imo. Any asset, any chain, any npub.
I can get into why that's a waste of time separately, but let's say you do that - why don't you just use lightning network for the transfer and routing and swap the coins in the wallets for whatever each side desires? That's possible today without changes.
The interesting thing about lightning network is that as soon as sender and recipient confirm that they received what they wanted, the transaction is settled. They could transact cows or bubblegums and the lightning network would settle those.
While it is a possible solution, I find the Lightning Network to be an inferior option for use cases where privacy, custody, and censorship resistance are critical for an average user.
Also, assuming my hypothetical was actualized, it would be a superior option to limiting Zaps. I have no ill-will against Zaps as they exist. I am simply offering what I view to be an expanded use.
#Bitcoin is money; use it as such.
1/ The sats you spend today will be worth a whole lot more in the future. You're blowing your grandkids' generational wealth on memes, and GMs, etc.
Yes, certainly reasons for not spending exist, too! I'm trying to counter what I see as a bias against spending.
Razões para gastar bitcoin (incluindo Lightning):
1. É mais seguro e privado do que preencher um formulário com informações pessoais (por exemplo, pagamento com cartão de crédito em alguns sites) ou
1a. entregar credenciais para um garçom ou uma máquina POS na qual você não confia.
1b. A interface é, portanto, melhor (mais fluida).
2. É mais barato talvez para você, mas especialmente para o comerciante, em comparação com cartões de crédito.
3. Ele se liquida (quase) imediatamente no caso de LN e em 10 minutos na blockchain; pagamentos com cartão frequentemente levam 60 dias.
4. Tem propriedades semelhantes ao dinheiro físico, mas você pode pagar remotamente e de forma imediata.
5. Não pode ser bloqueado por um provedor de pagamentos.
6. Não há (realisticamente) limite para o quão pequeno ou grande o pagamento pode ser.
7. Cada transação, especialmente as mais peer-to-peer, como entre amigos, mas também para empresas, adiciona e melhora a privacidade geral do bitcoin – considere que, se não fizéssemos nada além de mover bitcoin para e de exchanges com KYC, não haveria privacidade alguma, independentemente de criptografias avançadas. Mais transações comerciais ou pessoais sem KYC significam menos informações disponíveis para rastreamento na blockchain.
8. Não há interrupção sistêmica global quando algum sistema de backend falha (este ponto é mais debatível).
9. Usar bitcoin é como você aprende sua mecânica e adquire a expertise necessária para não perdê-lo, mesmo que seu objetivo principal seja apenas economizar.
10. Usar bitcoin o torna um dinheiro melhor, pois você está participando do processo que o torna uma forma viável de moeda para outros.
View quoted note →I prefer not to spend it for the moment, but it is clear that to really know how bitcoin works you have to learn how to spend it.
Kind of, except that ecash is pretty much not P2P by design since it relies on mints
I have a friend who thinks like this but I say to him it's better to spend and refill as that way you get bitcoin out there more. For you you will have the same bitcoin but now someone else also has bitcoin
Interoperable with lightning though. Plus easier to become a mint than to launch a custodial lightning or Bitcoin wallet, so there should be a lot more competition.
Bitcoin will not work only as a SoV, it needs to be utilized as a P2P MoE. Every now and again find a bitcoin only business and transact.
