"Choose your own algorithm" will NEVER work on Nostr the way it works on Bluesky.
Smart platform-provided algorithmic feeds like those from X, TikTok or Instagram will NEVER work on Nostr.
Anything that requires filtering from a "global feed" of all notes and delivering that to specific users will never work on Nostr because there isn't and there cannot ever be a global feed on Nostr.
If that is what you think Nostr needs to be good and popular then you'll first have to destroy Nostr by turning it into something else, and then you can implement it.
The alternative is to create something new, a new way of doing discovery, something that actually works nicely within the Nostr constraints, something that actually only works on Nostr because only Nostr has these distributed independent servers with specific owners, specific rules, different users, personalities and preferences.
Replies (44)
TikTok literally monitors how fast you're scrolling past posts. No way that can be recreated without massive privacy violations.
You can run the whole algorithm locally. It can definitely be replicated without violating privacy.
Watch time is very easy to replicate lmao
You cannot. There is no way to aggregate all the notes that may exist. We can get pretty close with a big network of nip66 monitors though.
Hmmm, I have some ideas, but the way you framed this makes me hesitate to share 🤣
Yeah, I want to make a TikTok clone, so I’ve done some pondering lol. At first I wanted to copy the Primal caching server and run the algorithm there, but I realized that’s not necessary to for an algorithm like what TikTok has. I think a localized algorithm lends itself to the way nostr handles metadata/labeling
People generally underestimate the use of the search function
I’m going to finish my degree and prove you wrong.
I think you're missing the point. Nostr works through countless asynchronous websockets. There is not such thing as a true "global feed" at an architectural level.
Please share.
I want discovery to feel like that feeling of walking past shops or cafes you've never been to before. Some places might look interesting, by the signage or the color of the building, maybe the name. Most of the places are okay, but some of them become a new favorite lunch spot or the place you always find the perfect gift, the place friends hang out and chat.
How does that prevent one from building an algorithmic feed? You could build it within your WoT and nobody could tell the difference
It doesn't it's just not an algorithm based on all the data available in nostr. That's the argument. Like I said, you can get pretty close with a good network of nip66 monitors. I made a bot recently to be a monitor if you'd like to check it out.
Is that how TikTok’s algo works?
TikTok has the ability to query all of the content on TikTok. Nostr does not have the ability to query all of the content on nostr, just all of the content on a set of relays.
Now that set of relays can be pretty massive, but it can never be ALL of them because they're countless.
Ah well yeah considering they run the servers. I don’t think you need that much content though. Ya know maybe a caching server isn’t a bad idea
It would be a very very large cache and you would have to seriously consider spam.
Yeah I might consider it down the line. First I need to finish my degree, then I need to build the app lol
I’ll start without any caching server, and probably without the algorithm and labeling features
The question is, how will you build it
notes with recent replies feels that way to me
That’s my question lol. I’m probably going to use and modify Olas code because that’s MIT license. I might build it from scratch though, idk.
Especially lists. Lists apps ain't doing it. Good apps need list support integrated.
I'd also add combining boosts/replys of one post. Idk if it should just bump it to the time boosted or what but as boosting is getting popular I notice seeing the same post 10 times or more.
I meant that language but if you haven't even considered that yet, then you're a long way off building
Oh yeah I actually don’t know how to code. Most I’ve done is build a calculator on android using Java , and a bit of JavaScript. I haven’t actually gotten to the CS stuff in my degree, I’m doing calculus rn.
But it’s going to be mobile first, so whatever the best languages are for android and iOS. But yeah it’s all just an idea in my head right now
If you want mobile then consider what platform. If you really want both then you might want to consider a framework like dart, flutter, react native or the new kid on the block lynx to build in a language that can compile to multiple platforms. Start learning about all these technologies now. Then consider pros and cons of each. Maybe make a simple app in each before picking one.
Yeah I might focus on just one platform to start. I’ll look into these. Btw I can’t zap you for some reason
What client?
I’m on primal rn
Gotta be something with the client. Works fine on amethyst and I wrote my own lnurl pay server. All the callbacks work properly. What wallet? The built in one? I'm trying to figure this out myself. You're not the first one with problems.
Yeah it worked on Nostur. I’m on iPhone, so primal is using the built in wallet, but Nostur is linked to my Alby node
Typical...
@miljan how does primal fetch my ln address?
Thanks for the zap! You won't see a receipt since my server doesn't send them "yet'
That's okay, I think few are used to "global" algo ranked posts anyway. Maybe on Reddit or YouTube, but for example on yt I either view the subscription time based feed or the home "for me" feed. The global trending feed is never interesting but that may be just me.
Whatever feed should probably be personalized which means only running algo on one's wot. Problem, I think is that's either self-host, subscription, or always running resource intensive app for a couple hops. There's wot relays, algo relays, personal haven relays. Be nice to get it wrapped up in a bun.
X has probably proved though people are willing to pay for the experience if it's worth it.
The internet is built on top of distributed independent servers with specific owners. Google managed to provide a de-facto "global feed" for the internet for a given keyword. Why shouldn't some nostr feed algorithm providers reach a similar status?
I understand that the problem becomes harder when you take into account each user's social graph, but I don't think that this makes it unsolvable
Sounds similar to what nostr filter relay does. Sounds nice!
Creio que o algoritmo deva ser tratado nos relays, não nos clientes.
The focus should be on building decentralized discovery methods that leverage Nostr’s strengths. Relays, user-curated lists, zaps as a signal, and trust-based networks could all play a role. The challenge isn’t replicating Bluesky or X, it’s inventing something better that fits Nostr’s unique architecture.
I might've thought it still did due to losing my place in the feed or something and reloading. Would be very nice though for replies and showing the post with list of those reposted or all replies from your follows until expanded.
Might also be a case of people copy/pasting the same storm memes or art lol. Nostr etiquette will grow I'm Sure.
Sounds like a good frankenclient! I get by with haven inbox/outbox and filter.nostr.wine enabled for global. Experimenting with algo relay on global sometimes. I like it but my friends wouldn't have the patience. We need it in a nice bun.
communities + natural language filtering and sorting of them. full agency.
View quoted note →@PDJ
This has been my biggest desire from Nostr so I guess I've been thinking about it wrong
serious?
HOW DARE YOU
Soon enough, local, private, low-power AI will be a basic service available on smart phones. Maybe even on legacy phones due to optimizations. That AI can learn what the user prefers to see, and the users feed can be optimized from there.
My primary complaint about nostr is missing important posts, ones that I don't see until I scroll back for almost an hour. If the AI used simple cues like which posts I boost, zap and like, it could dig up those posts I haven't seen yet from my existing follow list and present them first (like a ICYMI tab). This would be far better than croud-sourcing the feed from total likes of posts in my feed.
This could be a good start at the "hands free" curated feed everyone seems to like. How do you get important posts from people you don't already follow? You don't need to because one of your follows likely will reference or repost it. That is how news works.
