A Nostr client with no concept of "follows", you just get shown some content from selected relays, then if you like -- or if you read (your local client would know by your clicking or how much time your spent on each thread, no one else) -- that person gets added to a dynamic ranking of possible interests, so you start to softly "follow" them (by which I mean the client fetches their notes specifically from their relays). As you interact with new notes and new people that dynamic list changes.
Replies (45)
Yes please
The magic sauce in the tik tok algo has been revealed.....
fiatjaf
A Nostr client with no concept of "follows", you just get shown some content from selected relays, then if you like -- or if you read (your local client would know by your clicking or how much time your spent on each thread, no one else) -- that person gets added to a dynamic ranking of possible interests, so you start to softly "follow" them (by which I mean the client fetches their notes specifically from their relays). As you interact with new notes and new people that dynamic list changes.
View quoted note →
Sounds interesting
This is the ideal social media “algorithm”. Bravo! 🤝
But which selected relays? Showing global from big ones can be a disaster
Like X
I like the idea although isn’t this similar to TikTok, Twitter, Instagram/Threads?
Whatever the soft follow algorithm is, there has to be a way to factory reset it when it no longer delivers the results you want.
Isn’t this just the TikTok algo?
Ok, so.
1: forget the selected relays *insert stop trying to make manual relay selection happen .gif*
2: client takes the follow list and uses it as a guide to pick relays for a feed innitially.
3: innitially uses the existing follow list as your 'soft follow' set up.
4: continue the scheme as you described.
5: 'clustered' softfollows could be a reason for the client to decide to add a relay for feed purposes (instead of just fetching particular npub notes)
A: assumes an existing profile with existing socialgraph, if this is not the case, pls see *bootstrapproblemexistsforeverything.pfd*
B: manual relay selection should still be an option, ofcourse, if not just to make you happy
🤙🏻
very cool.
Yeah, we're taking the "from Follows" option out of the landing page and burying it in an advanced search, instead. Follows is just a contact list, really.
We're going to be relay-focused.
@Low Information Voter and I were discussing this construct, recently. Running Minitru backward, basically.
Big relays are a solution looking for a problem, IMO.
We preload our client with our own curated relay, and then people can add their own relays, by logging in.
Like TikTok basically
What is Minitru?
A simple algorithm that learns what you want to see _less_ of, like an email spam filter. We were thinking that it could simply be run backward.
Think Apache SpamAssasin, but turned around, it would be GoldFinder.
This is cool but basically impossible to see the code.
Only over Tor, yeah. Have to install it, to see anything. It's a standard system, tho. The cool idea is just to use it for notes, instead of emails.
Basic idea is that it's a client-side machine-learning spam filter that pushes things you have told it that you don't want to read (maybe starting from your 1984 reports) further down. You curate the algo yourself, over time.
If the client also has a gold finder, working the other way around, starting from your lists and things you've quoted or replied to, then it would constantly to refine your suggestions, while you keep control of the refinement process and can intervene, if it goes AWOL.
which relays and which notes to start?
The client developer hardcodes that.
Hard no on copying what TikTok does. Let's aim for conscious interaction, not unconscious interaction. Let's tend to our higher self, not our lower self.
I feel like most of Nostr just wants to add zaps and Nostr logins to the same things we are trying to free people from instead of building some new and better.
TikTok but with Nostr
Instagram but with Nostr
Twitter but with Nostr
etc…
Is that what TikTok does? I imagined like they would push "similar content from random people" onto you, not "content from the same people".
It does sound something like a dynamic RSS.
ive never used tiktok. i liked this idea until you said this 😂
We're getting rid of follows on
@nextblock. Accounts you "add" are simply contacts in a contact book. Then you can add them as neighbors on your block or neighborhood. Or don't and instead check in on them whenever your want.
NextBlock
social media without an algorithm
This sounds interesting, I like the ability to check in on contacts manually -- with some help from the app so I don't have to type names all the time and remember that people exist.
I'm curious about how this looks like in the actual app UI. The website is impressive, but totally vague.
Nobody knows what Tik-Tok does. It's not open-source and it is hosted on a server in China or something.
Couldn't agree more! We have to decide what gets our attention. We can redesign social media completely. We don't need follows. We need intentionally designed roles and spaces for interaction in the digital world.
We're building this on
@nextblock! Blocks, Neighborhoods, the City, and the Wilds!
Everyone you meet is a stranger unless you add them as a contact. Then you can put them on your block (where you see only accounts and activity of 21 people), your neighborhood (same concept as block but no # cap), the city (all NextBlock citizens - we aren't "users", or the Wilds which is all of Nostr).
So someone is either a stranger, contact, or neighbor.
You can also visit other people's neighborhoods! So less labor on your part of you want to trust someone else to be in charge of what you see for a bit.
Lots more to our design on how we think Nostr works without an algorithm. Please do check us out if you have time!
Thanks! Let's talk!
I know @Ian would love to share our plans/vision/progress work. I will send you a DM!
it's a great idea. TikTok does this with the goal of TikTok making money. fiatjaf can do it with a goal of making a better experience for new nostriches
I say yes. I think people sometimes forget the nature of the openness of Nostr. Unconscious interaction based applications can coexist with conscious interaction based applications.
As other have pointed out, there are advantages to having this approach that isn't brain rot. Unconscious interaction does a good job recommending users to follow, expanding your network, which is even more needed on Nostr (especially when starting out).
E.g.:
1) Start out on Nostr -> social network doesn't exist
2) Use unconscious interaction based application -> create good base of initial users to follow
3) Stop using application and move to conscious interaction based application -> no brain rot
Can you share the account?
isn’t this just an algorithm based client in the end
usually when you interact with someone’s content on tiktok it’ll push you more of their content as you scroll on.
i don’t think it’s a bad thing to make something like tiktok. a lot of people have a negative attitude towards it, but it’s insanely popular.
This. I have work to do!
Isn’t this how you create a bubble? With following I can create my bubble and am aware of that. With this TikTok algorithm you’ll create it for me and it’s hard to change for me at some point.
