Replies (104)
Finally made it
I still think the "quantum threat" is a bunch of panic. I don't know, maybe I'm a dumbass But I'm starting to get this political vibe from both core and knots where people are introducing "fixes" that do more than just fix a certain problem.
Kind of like a shitty politician. Sneaking in a bunch of tax breaks for their homies while pushing some arbitrary bill that's covered in glitter and fake good intentions.
If that makes any sort of sense.
I'm ambivalent. I see where you're coming from but why should we let hackers steal coins (and thus our collective purchasing power)? At a certain point it is just a "muh principles". But the principle most of us signed up for was based on the assumption that ECDSA was sound.
I would be OK with it as long as there is a long and heavily advertised transitionary period.
Because that's what's right. Of the owner does not care to secure their coins, the proper response is not for someone else to freeze them and protect them. That's ridiculous.
The only principal that matters is that they are your coins. If someone else can freeze them, then they are no longer your coins.
Correct
Not to mention the specter of advertising to the world that the community is prepared to make changes to the decentralized protocol that gives some small group the decision making authority over what is or isn’t a “good” coin
"Estás en lo cierto, cualquier cambio que impida mover fondos es una amenaza para la libertad y la escalabilidad del Bitcoin".
There's a big difference between freezing funds arbitrarily and freezing them for a one time upgrade. I see where you are coming from but it's one of those well meaning libertarian principles that's actually wrong headed imo. The key assumptions behind bitcoin breaking also breaks the concept of ownership. I signed up for the rightful owner to own the bitcoin. Not for whomever can build a quantum computer fastest to steal bitcoin to own it.
Yes and so you will migrate when the time comes. If someone else doesn’t that’s on them, but we can’t employ pre-crime principles to bitcoin. The Daddy-Devs (gov’t) come save me attitude, respectfully, is unhealthy and leads to all the problems we presently have.
Oh im glad you added respectfully to your comment. That made it very respectful thank you Mr Lawyer guy.
You remind me of me of a gay liberal lawyer from DC I know. Always performing for a crowd 🤣. I let it go the last few times but you seem determined to be a keyboard warrior.
If any of you really believe in quantum FUD, just sell your Bitcoin. Quantum threat is fake. Utterly fake. This is purely an attack on the cryptographic heart of freedom by deception.
It's insane on a lot of levels.
Your sensitivity explains why you want daddy to save you.
Nah im just done with your smarmy lawyer gayness. Call me if you wanna box (you wont)
Its embarrassing to be a lawyer and go straight to condescending. 0 substance 🤡
I’m clearly the keyboard warrior. You’re observant.
Respectfully if I were a lawyer and had to project gay daddy fantasies onto someone I disagreed with, I would kill myself. Respectfully.
I’ll take that into consideration.
I tend to agree but im more interested in what happens when the cryptography eventually does become obsolete. If it is not quantum it could be something else even if it takes a century. The principle of ownership is not as clear cut when the cryptography breaks down.
I'm sorry but you don't understand cryptography or computation. The limits are physics and the laws of information. No matter how much better the computers get, your Bitcoin keys are safe for millions of years. Worry more about wrenches.
Thats not a real argument. Tbh its childish. Given enough time the logical assumptions underpinning ECDSA can absolutely break. Even if all the quantum people are grifters (I contend they are), the fact remains that on the order of hundreds of years new computational and physics paradigms can weaken ECDSA. And it is better to have a solution ready when that happens.
Call me that's more than a vague linear assumption
That is not english but ok. I respect that ECDSA is strong but it is naive to think it cannot be weakened over the course of centuries with a gigantic bitcoin bounty on it.
It is pure baseless speculation to say that it can be. You are speaking directly out of your ass. You are spreading FUD and you have no clue what you are talking about.
This is nostr not ancient Greece! Why would you want to box a gay lawyer in the first place?
The bear market is doing a number on so many. Peace be with you gay warrior! 🙏🏻
You cannot enforce rights of property without projection of power. ie the natural law is, if you can't protect it, it's not yours.
You're a lawyer. What happens if I leave my wallet on the sidewalk and come back an hour later? Should I expect that no one take it? What is my legal recourse? Now let's say I can actually do that and through some magic it's stuck to the concrete right now. Now say, one day, that glue may lift. Is it just of some other group to come around and bury all the unstuck wallets in concrete where no one can get it, including the original owner? Or are they as engaged in theft as the person that just took the wallet.
Complete platitude that ignores the point.
What we signed up for in bitcoin is a system that protects the rightful ownership of coins that were purchased or earned legitimately.
Quantum fundamentally changes the security assumptions and allows a group with quantum computers to take from the legitimate owners.
The logic is the same as if the Bitcoin Core wallet were compromised. I would not want those funds flooding the market on account of a security vulnerability.
Both groups take away access from the rightful owner. Their intentions are moot.
This is a surprisingly complicated question. But each state has abandoned property laws determining how found property can be claimed. It gets even harder when the device itself isn’t the bitcoin rather it’s the information in the wallet I think the law on bitcoin ownership standard of proofs are presently not completely settled short of boring chain of custody arguments. Short of demonstrating chain of custody “possession is 9/10 of the law” as they say. This actually might be an interesting thing to write something up on.
I also didn’t answer your question, but I’m unaware of any precedent that says if property is hard to get to (i.e. only accessible by bad actors) then the right thing is to make it impossible to get to.
I was respectfully arguing a point when Johnny Gayboi, JD came in and projected some bizarre ad hominem including a gay fetish onto me. So I challenged him to a boxing match and he backed down.
Now you are running in to defend your gay boyfriend. Way to go lmao.
You must have a lot of friends.
Unless I’m mistaken, John was referring to daddy government when comparing to devs; so over reaching devs. I’m not sure he called you gay 🤷🏾
Correct.
"What we signed up for in bitcoin is a system that protects the rightful ownership of coins that were purchased or earned legitimately."
And freezing them is not protecting them. It's stealing them. It's not Bitcoin. Keep that side of the fork if you want, you may even do better short term as price depreciates from selling of unsecured coins. But the promise is dead. That chain will die.
Hey weasel. Im done with you. You backed down from boxing like the coward I pegged you for so I will leave you to your effeminate woman bullying tactics lmao
Some would argue it is not stealing them rather it is burning them after a long grace period. I am not even saying I am 100% on board with this plan but the steelman is: if you do not care enough to move them for security after a long grace period you do not care to own them.
I understand your steelman but I am not convinced. It strikes me as one of those suicidal libertarian axioms people take on just to be perfectly consistent without contending with practical outcomes.
I don't see the difference between massive mathematical breakthroughs versus poorly derived entropy. I also reject the framing of "selling of unsecured coins" The threat of a possible quantum computing breakthrough is not a justification for fiat that has guaranteed double-spending properties.
If Bitcoin breaks.
Buy bullets.
But gold.
But don't buy fiat.
Agreed
You’re very strong and tough.
You know what that kind of thinking got us? Fiat.
You know what kind of argument that is? Not one.
It's not an argument. It's a thought experiment. Keep up.
Dude, you're such a fag. Daddy was the government in that note. Fucking midget.
Holy shit you really wanna litigate this on behalf of your gay boyfriend. Just fight me or shut the fuck up pussy.
I don't fight gay men. I can send you flowers tho. What's you favorite color?
Leave my bae alone
Pussied out. Bitch made. You can go hide now.
You're so rude for a gay. Was it your uncle? Uncle James? Who hurt you? This is a safe space you know.
@fuckstr
I may have found a man to fight your boy, M. I understand you're managing a young talent and my boy here uncle Jim is desperately in a need for a fight. Nostr unified belt of faggotry. What say you?
We shall discuss prize money later on.
@uncleJim21 you have to be careful with homo
@M when you fight him, he will try to suck your dick 😂
It's only gay if you cum 😂
Wait… I thought it was only gay if you were the one receiving the man-love, and giver was still straight? 😬
It's true that there's nothing wrong or gay with relieving a bro.
NGL, this thread reminds me of the 16k or gay convos 🤣 🤣
There's nothing not gay about nostr
thats why you here 🥴
Youre still clacking at your keyboard gay boy?? 🤣
You:
- defend sacred honor of your gay boyfriend
- talk jive and get called out for a fight
- decline to settle it with fisticuffs like men do
- instead run away and keep yapping like a bitch
- up the ante and dramatize it by involving more people like how i imagine a teenage girl would
And contend Im the gay one 🤣
Ok fun boy. Hmu if you grow a pair and want me to make you taste curb in a fight. Or just stfu and touch grass makes no difference to me.
Gotta say No homo first
🌈
That's true, I learned it in sex ed at school
🫡
Sources tell me you were on the island. Bye piglet!
I don’t think challenging strangers on the internet to street fights comes off the way you think it does. I hope you get the help you seem to need. I mean that sincerely.
You too huh?
Anyway, freezing unmoved coins is an attack on bitcoin. Imagine waking up from a coma or coming back from a long vacation just to find your coins unusable. As for quantum attacks, people do not understand that encryption is protecting a lot of things not just bitcoin. Do not spread FUD or else... ☝🏻🐸
Not really. It just comes back to this at the end of the day.
Keyboard warriors and apparently passive aggressive lawyers sit behind a keyboard and lob disrespect. My point is: let's skip all that and go straight to settling it physically. This is how men have done business for 99% of history up until our current feminized moment. If you have a problem with it you are defective.
No one knows what you’re proposing settling. You feel slighted because I disagreed with you in a way you misinterpreted and so youre recommending that we resolve that by you knocking my teeth out. This is unhinged and retarded. You apparently run a business and you might find your feelings getting hurt in that context, I suppose you’ll want to go to prison like Mike Tyson for… your honor? Welcome to the 21st century. Grow up.
Are you mentally handicapped or something? You've challenged half a dozen npubs for physical confrontations and you wonder why we piss in your tea? Gtfo with your Mike Tyson quote. By the way, you look like you can't do 10 push-ups without calling 911. You may be excused.
A Nostr fight night would be pretty fun, live on zap.stream .
If someone puts it together, I'm in.
You just described yourself. All you do is call people gay and say fight me bro. Are you 12? 🤣
Keep digging that hole Mr Keyboard Warrior.
I'll fight any ordinals guy
who the fuck are you bro
if i may ask
A softwarrior 🧡⚔
I challenged 2 people to a fight when they had it coming. They backed down as predicted so me and them have nothing to discuss now.
"ALL YOU DO IS DO THIS THING I SAW YOU DO IN ONE THREAD". I have hundreds of posts about AI and bitcoin. Stop being a drama queen lmao.
"tree climber"
I climb trees with a chainsaw
Hard fork to burn the frozen bitcoins
thats crazy
are you controlling your whole system with that straw?
no, I use my body
You seem like you have trouble handling both the slightest disagreement and your emotions honestly. Real men don't immediately jump to insults and threats. Children do.
so just for the fashion/vibe
cool 😎
Agora vai tomar o seu remédio de louco e dormir.
Seu pai ta mandando.
Meu remédio me deixa assim
what are you sucking on the picture? what kind of device 🤔 #asknostr
My #pipestr
#asknostr 🤔
no barber in the bloodline thats for sure.
yoo captain 😂
absurd
everyone can see. your degenerate father never showed you how to shave?
Nah I don't care if you disagree with me. I was respectfully arguing the point and you go to implying I'm a statist cuck and a child that needs "daddy government". And it's not just this time... you'll see a random comment I think it's time to chime in with your smug lawyer passive aggression. I ignored it several times but this time I decided to go nuclear on you. And that's why I challenged you to a fight. You declined and I blocked you and stopped replying. In my world that's not a big deal it's just amusing that you'd back down like that.
Apparently 16 hours later you decided to amplify the signal on this thread reposting the replies. But ya you're totally concerned about me and my wellbeing. Sure pal. Or maybe it's a big performance.
You are the one making this a big deal with your feelings hurt.
I taught myself
i can see
roll on dude 👩🦼
vibecode yourself to a barbershop
I foresee a fork. The unfortunate reality is that the majority fork will likely be those acting out of self-interest (i.e. rationalize the freezing of others' coins) rather than for the good of the protocol (respect for some concept of property rights).
Of course, even without quantum, this sort of battle was always inevitable. Eventually, the U.S. government will force U.S. businesses to move to a fork that enables the government to effectively freeze UTXOs at will. That will account for an awful lot of custodied BTC and hash power.
In either case, what will be interesting to see is how many of the rest of us will be strong enough to stick to our principals and how many will turn out to just have been pretenders all along.
We need an incentive to resist.
a hard fork is absolutely coming and frozen bitcoins will be burned
oh yh
sure
