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There's a new wave of Lightning FUD hitting the wires, but that's noise. What no one else is talking about is the signal. Reality is that Lightning faces a massive incentive problem, one it inherits from Bitcoin itself. The great wave of shitcoins in the early years highlighted this problem way back then, but it's manifesting itself in a new, potentially even more dangerous way today. Since Bitcoin, and its only real L2 in Lightning, are emergent, truly decentralized, disintermediated and "just work" as money, the profit motive for companies looking to benefit from a growing industry skews towards "inventing" things beyond them; there must always be something "new" to re-brand non-solutions or introduce middlemen. Enter the newest attack by fake L2s, or shitcoins 2.0 as they should be more appropriately framed. Shitcoining 1.0 has lost its novelty, as over time people realize there is one true coin. Scammers have thus adapted, and are now affinity scamming as Bitcoin projects. Ark, Spark, Citrea, Stacks, and countless others now... with their astroturf for Covenants that would lend them some perceived legitimacy... solve nothing. These are all means not to solve problems or enhance UX, but to smuggle trust and centralization for profit. Lightning wallets can very easily introduce trust and centralization with the same exact trade-offs; fake L2s are no different than zero-conf channels, but this isn't sexy and won't raise a bunch of money or generate hype. Actually enhancing UX is tedious, hard work, to which I can attest, and inherently requires scarce creativity, otherwise the challenges would be solved already. This is a perfect storm for the scammer class. Unsophisticated users that lack technical discernment, combined with hipsters always ready to jump on the current thing bandwagon, magnify the scammer astroturf. This reinforces investment theses, then more investment yields more scams, which amp up hipsters and the unsophisticated; it's a downward spiral. **Unlike Shitcoins 1.0, Shitcoins 2.0 presents a Bitcoin contagion.** Never before have so many disparate scams sought to change Bitcoin itself to pervert the incentives further. Shitcoins 1.0 sold you a new coin... Shitcoins 2.0 want to exploit YOUR coin. Shitcoins 1.0 sold your friends and family a new investment thesis; Shitcoins 2.0 stand on the back of your hard-fought orange-pilling. Covenants are the force multiplier of this attack. These apps are in chorus over how it enhances the security of their centralized apps, and given their affinity scam nature, the security of Bitcoin. In reality, it has no monetary purpose, only to enable delegation to these centralized middlemen. If you control your Bitcoin today, you control your Bitcoin, period. Covenants offer you nothing. Covenants scammers want you to believe, however, that you can control your Bitcoin while someone else, via their fake L2 centralized application, controls your Bitcoin. New OP_ Codes like CTV, CAT, DRIVECHAIN, and others represent a new era where changes to Bitcoin aren't argued on the merits of Bitcoin as money, but its use as an Ethereum-like stack for centralized applications. > But aren't VAULTs a monetary use of covenants? No, just as covenants are a push for centralized remote control, vaults are to CLAW BACK that control. This leaves 2 mutually exclusive scenarios: * Bitcoin loses its utility as money, as merchants can no longer simply rely on confirmations to conclude a payment is settled. * A merchant can ensure funds are not encumbered through certain output types, but then so can an attacker, rendering the vault pointless from the start. > What do? Incentives are a bitch; we couldn't stop shitcoins... but we did grind them down over time. The question is whether we can grind down these fake L2s and covenants scammers; fortunately, Bitcoin being hard to change buys us time. It's imperative that if you value Bitcoin as hard money and wish to defend it as such, you present the same show of force we showed against shitcoins. Let every investor and user know, in every comment on every blog or Twitter post, that these applications are not Bitcoin, that Covenants are an attack by the Bithereum Industrial Complex, and that whoever advocates them is either a scammer, a paid shill, or a hipster moron. image
2025-11-02 18:56:28 from 1 relay(s) 12 replies ↓
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Replies (24)

If you can afford a unilateral exit in the first place, you can open a Lightning channel. The scam is that it claims to offer solutions, when in fact all it does is introduce trust and centralization as trade-offs Lightning wallets can use trust and centralization to for better UX, but that doesn't get hyped up by hipsters and investment like the "current thing" nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqvckud5kme6d8x2ezfaemppd74aam3w3c7hc5p83h3awmq95g5ygqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wwejhgtcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcqyqc4p0v38qp8dgpk30hvhk5am9uv5hs6lf77pfeau2lmfrs650gj777wv66
2025-11-02 19:11:27 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 1 replies ↓ Reply
I like that we can have choices like ark or spark, but know the tradeoffs and pay attention to this, shitcoins 2.0 are coming to bitcoin and they will want more shit features on the base chain to make it the new ethereum. nostr:nevent1qqsrz59ajyuqya4qx697aj76nhvh3jj7rta8mc988h3tldywr23aztcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtczyqe3dcmfdhn56wv4jynmnkzzmatmmhzar3a03gz0r0r6akqtg3ggsqcyqqqqqqgp02kmd
2025-11-02 22:15:10 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 2 replies ↓ Reply
lightning is a scam for creating make-work and the illusion of industrial growth while consolidating payment processing activity into centralized entities. companies like boltz and lightspark are not only evidence that lightning doesn't actually work at scale, they are part of the scam. YOU can open your own channels and play with your hot wallet abacus all day whenever the fee market is dead and pretend like you are still not losing money to channel maintenance, but it's not going to be like that in the mass adoption wet dreams. with lightning you are drowning in centralization.
2025-11-03 13:53:14 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 1 replies ↓ Reply
It's literally just re-usable transactions, sounds like you got skill issues. The centralized entities are evidence only of the incentive problem, fake L2's just put a new branding on it.
2025-11-03 15:28:09 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 1 replies ↓ Reply
Looks like your whole account is Lightning derangement posts, sorry you lost your 3000 sats from not knowing what you were doing and are still butthurt about it.
2025-11-03 21:58:14 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent Reply
People should pay more attention to these warnings then what all influencers are pushing agendas all around... Before jumping so fast into these L2 fakeries, think again then be sorry later. nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqvckud5kme6d8x2ezfaemppd74aam3w3c7hc5p83h3awmq95g5ygqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wwejhgtcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcqyqc4p0v38qp8dgpk30hvhk5am9uv5hs6lf77pfeau2lmfrs650gj777wv66
2025-11-03 22:17:18 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 2 replies ↓ Reply
We're already seeing it, fake L2's and covenants are it. I'm sure ICO's will be re-branded as well and Bitcoin hipsters will eat it up nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqvckud5kme6d8x2ezfaemppd74aam3w3c7hc5p83h3awmq95g5ygqyt8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgu3wwejhgtcpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtcqyqc4p0v38qp8dgpk30hvhk5am9uv5hs6lf77pfeau2lmfrs650gj777wv66
2025-11-04 02:37:25 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent Reply
Even LN is a suspect to me. My misconception was LN main purpose was to make small BTC payments feasible and deal with some the BTC privacy concerns. It appears to me now that the big LN nodes are playing the role of the fiat centralized bankers while the everyday person doesn't have a chance at getting into the game. So anyway, I hope I'm wrong about trading one master for another but that seems like a very strong possibility from where I stand today.
2025-11-04 02:45:29 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent Reply
If you run your your own node and open a channel to a big routing node. They will take fees from your payment if it routs through them. But you are in the worstcase always in control of the bitcoin on your side. This is a great difference to the legacy bank system. You can profit from your taken Responsibilty.
2025-11-05 09:29:17 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent 1 replies ↓ Reply
And opening a channel to a big routing node is your choice, Lightning is just infinitely re-usable transactions, you can open a channel to anyone also running a node.
2025-11-05 14:55:48 from 1 relay(s) ↑ Parent Reply