> There are no solutions. Only tradeoffs Exactly. Those trade-offs are trust and centralization, which are all fake L2's can offer. You cannot handle 8 billion people without trust and centralization, that's a function of the supply cap / dust + non-zero fee required for chain security. Bitcoin scales to 100-200M at most, less as large accumulators remove float, that's purely on lack of divisibility alone and has nothing to do with tx density. 8BN is also not the goal, that's retarded. Not even 8BN have internet or phones. There are only 300MN businesses and maybe 1BN households. The only tradeoff lightning makes is liveness, which is how the internet works. That's a hard requirement for anything but the base chain. It's a fact that trust and centralization are the only levers, but if you want to beat your head against the wall denying reality like shitcoiners do have fun I guess.

Ark can be dismantled to make it much more sovereign. I'm sorry, but 8 Billion is the goal. I want everyone to use Bitcoin. Just because they don't have Internet yet, doesn't mean they don't need it. I believe it can be achieved. You don't because you gave up and settled on lightning is good enough. It's not.

It's a mathematical fact 8BN cannot use Bitcoin, they have to trust someone to use it for them, because it's not divisible and chain representation has a minimum. Ark is a scam from the bottom up. What you believe and what are true can be separate things. I acknowledge reality and focus my energy on what is possible, not cope and virtue signals.

Lightning tradeoff is much more than just liveness, it's capital requirement. That can not scale to average people making small transactions daily without centralization. Which is exactly what we see in lightning. Tell me, how many people on nostr are self hosting their lightning node and getting zaps to it? This is the most hardcore bunch there is. They're not doing it. Because lightning is far too expensive in time and money. You can make the learning time go away with enough UI improvement, you cannot make the expense go away.

It's not cope or virtue signalling. I'm also focused on what's possible. You just don't have the capacity to imagine what else there could be.

Bitcoin is infinitly divisible... Not sure what you mean...

There's no capital requirement, its literally just re-usable transactions you'd already make. Lightning nodes have faced traditional web server friction, Pub solves that, there's a lot more people using them today than there were yesterday because CLINK doesn't have the friction of LNURL. You can bitch about Lightning as much as you want, that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact there are no solutions to be had. Smuggling trust and centralization are not solutions. Understand this.

This is Bitcoin 101 fella, it's not divisible at all. 2.1quadrillion sats.

You have to have $1000 in the first place to be able to spend $10 on lightning. You can't take $10 and spend it on lightning if you only have $10 to begin with. That's a huge capital requirement for most people.

Math 101... We can add more decimal places... Lightning already does this pal.

No you can't. Adding decimals in Bitcoin is a supply increase, a change in the base unit, not going to happen. msats in Lightning aren't resolvable on chain, they're shitcoins used for internal accounting/rounding... they aren't units of actual Bitcoin. You really don't know what you don't know...

2.1 quintillion millisats... I devided it. You said it wasn't possible. It's literally BOLT 1 Mr lightning man. The protocol you are fawning over, devides sats.

Not on-chain they don't, you don't seem to understand the difference between internal accounting and actual Bitcoin, maybe why you think a shitcoin like Liquid is Bitcoin...

I understand that. But you are absolutely wrong that additional decimal places increase supply. 1 Bitcoin equals 1.0 Bitcoin. Slicing the pizza in half again doesn't make the pizza any larger. A decimal precision increase is not off the table for the base layer. In fact, I would think it would naturally increase with little to no pushback if the time came.

What about Rootstock/BitVM or whatever? They already have trustless BTC->rBTC and are working to also make rBTC->BTC possible without federations. It’s also older than Liquid if I’m not mistaken.

What about activating more op codes on L1?

I guess the bip110 circus took all the oxygen out of the room? honestly I’m not well versed in blockchain things but it seems like OP_CAT would make native bridging easier to implement.

That and also CheckTemlplateVerify (CTV)

You could probably do ark on chain with CTV. 10 minute rounds and VTXOs.

Ffs really.