> But that doesn't mean people can just run off with our sats What? It means just that!! That's why we've been saying "Not your keys not your coins" for 10 years!! You have to be crazy to put your money on the Raspberry Pi of someone that you don't know...

I don't disagree. But life is about putting your property in somebody else's hands all the time. When you invite people to your house, they are ready to take your property. It's on their hands. Families do this ALL the time. The family's money is always custodial with somebody. Custody is not only about trust. It's about systems. Companies do the same. The money is always controlled by one or more employees. Even when so, there are securities in place to avoid misbehavior. I don't think we will ever get rid of custodial systems.

Really? I agree, none should ever lose money. I wonder, how come I never lose money. If you write down your seed phrase, it's practically impossible, if the mint doesn't go down

I consider the small number of mints I regularly use pretty trustworthy in terms of uptime.

I have seen lots of little things like transactions happening and then disappearing from wallets, relays deleting NIP-60 events and mints just disappearing. Sure, we can always blame the that user should be doing more before engaging with those players, but I also think the community expects more consistent apps and behaviors from operators.

I'm sorry about every user who has had issues with Cashu. We are doing our best to give disclaimers and warnings wherever we can. We are honest to you because we don't need to sell you anything. There is no product. I can promise you, we're constantly improving. We're building Cashu because we believe in Bitcoin and want to see it in every corner of the world. To minimize your personal risk: - write down your seed phrase. You should be able to restore every sat you ever receive with your wallet if you keep your seed phrase secure. - don't put money into random mints, only those that you trust. If you don't know a mint, avoid it. - contribute. We're constantly improving the protocol and the libraries around it. Help wallet devs test and report bugs. We're still at the beginning. We've literally invented an entire protocol from zero. There were no blueprints. We did all this without any investments or corporate structure. The number of devs is going up and we're getting better every day. Cashu is now probably the easiest way to onboard someone to Bitcoin. Remember, people lost millions of BTC in the early days. However, every lost sat is one too much. If you experience issues with your Cashu mint, find the operator and let them know. If you can't do that, don't use their mint. Stay safe anon.

🔥

Trusted third parties are security holes.

It's still pretty early beta and a bit buggy. I have 38k sats that got stuck using cashu.me with minibits mint. "Proofs Pending Error" I was going to reach out to minibits but figured I'd consider it a donation to their project instead. I've been testing the @Minibits wallet and only have had one transaction go missing (using their lightning address feature). The devs are still trying to troubleshoot it. I find the minibits team very responsive. I know it's still early beta so I try testing as many noob scenarios as I can think of. Hopefully I find a big and can replicate it for the team to troubleshoot. I agree sats shouldn't be lost but I don't recommend these projects to newly orange pilled users. I haven't had custodians rug me but bugs causing loses I have seen. But again this is for testing not ready for primetime in my opinion.

Well looks like the pending proof cleared. @calle mentioned it might clear a couple weeks ago and so it did. I was able to zero out the wallet. So the only sats lost were 100 I tested on minibits ln address. Guess I'll go donate to both projects the other 38k I recovered.

I sell on @Shopstr Markets , and I have always, minus once, gotten my Sats. The one I didn't, he was not logged into a client when he made payment. Not sure if that had anything to do with it or not. I have received at least 30 orders thru there though, and @calvadev⚡️ uses cashu @calle , so... Maybe doing something wrong. I am not a coder, and you are far superior to me when it comes using a computer. But I am telling you that I have only had One problem ever.

Erm.. people running away with your sats because it's custodial is the essence of being custodial. That's the tradeoff, you're trusting them. Why people ever thought getting fiat IOUs from online strangers in return for their perfectly good sats is beyond me. What did you think would happen? To say nothing of the part where all the sats just sit on a live wallet on a server.. but then again that's the lightning network as well.

> My point is that NO one should EVER lose ANY money from a custodial system. Not a single sat. Regardless of how new things are. I don't understand what you mean here. Is it "No bugs should cost normies money" or "There should be recourse for people running mints and then just walking away with the funds" or "Nobody should use custodial services as they are inherently bound to lose at least some of them money"?

If the mint loses money, users should be able to sue the mint operator for some of the companies/individuals assets. However, usually mints don't provide any legal terms of use that can define an appropriate relationship between users and operators. Apps should not list any mint that doesn't provide legal protections to the users.

Every custodial solution requires guarantees. Legal enforcement is one kind of guarantee. If we are to obsolete the government, we need a cryptographic self custody solution for ecash. Without one, it will require compliant companies like Strike to operate a mint. It may be impossible to operate a legitimate Chaumian eCash mint as a money transmitting business under current laws given blind signatures prevents KYC, and mints facilitate transfer of fiduciary media. That leaves us with anonymous mints, under which a rug-pull can happen at any time. This is where a cryptographic bond may be useful, one where an anti-rugpull guarantee can be enforced by loss of an equivalent amount of bitcoin if the token holders can prove the mint is unwilling to redeem tokens.

This post will probably live for a long time. Can you at least say which mints disappeared on you?