calle's avatar
calle calle@cashu.me 1 year ago
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
↑ Parent

Replies (29)

HoloKat's avatar
HoloKat 1 year ago
Nutception 🤯 Still processing …
sudocarlos's avatar
sudocarlos _@sudocarlos.com 1 year ago
> Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. Wouldnt the payment recipients also be KYCd? Why would they become gateways and not get banned from the mint?
1 replies ↓
Machu Pikacchu's avatar
Machu Pikacchu 1 year ago
At a time when runes are driving up fees to insane levels, I’m grateful for your work on e-cash. Thank you!
1 replies ↓
sati's avatar
sati 1 year ago
Wau! I am not sure I understand but it sounds amazing!😄
PastaGringo 🤖⚡'s avatar
PastaGringo 🤖⚡ pastagringo@fractalized.net 1 year ago
Cashu will eat the entire World (anonymously co 😅)
calle's avatar calle
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Nathan Day's avatar
Nathan Day nathan@btcmap.org 1 year ago
🥜^🥜 It's nuts all the way down.
calle's avatar calle
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Default avatar
npub1jgm0...669p 1 year ago
Ok this looks insanely awesome
calle's avatar calle
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
average_bitcoiner's avatar
average_bitcoiner average@primal.net 1 year ago
Finally can run a mint without fucking around with running a LN node.
calle's avatar calle
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Default avatar
npub1j3de...27tz 1 year ago
This could be really big if adopted
calle's avatar calle
Ok I've built this for fun and it's incredible. A Cashu gateway: it's a normal Cashu user who has a Lightning node (or another Lightning payment backend). Everyone can act like a gateway as long as the mint supports ecash HTLCs (NUT-15). If you as a Cashu user know of such a gateway, your wallet can send your Lightning payment request to it instead of to the mint. The gateway responds with an amount (it can take a fee). If you agree, you send it ecash, and it pays your Lightning invoice. The process is atomic. What does that mean? Let's think a little ahead and imagine this was deployed on a significant scale. Even if the mint is full KYC for peg-in and peg-outs, a user could still make Lightning payments anonymously with the help of other users. (!!! this alone would be huge !!!) This would also enable us to make on-chain-only mints which opens up a whole new way of building mints (reserves could be in a multisig for example). Crazy part: Gateways can be lazy and use custodial Lightning backends. The user doesn't care as long as the invoice gets paid. Yes. That means you could use your Strike or Blink or LNbits account to act as a Gateway for a Cashu mint you like. There could be many of crazy people like you. Nobody would ever know. Neither the mint. nor your LN service provider would notice. They all just see invoices. It gets weirder. Gateways could use *another Cashu mint* as an LN backend. I know sounds like an inception nut but bare with me. A user of mint M1 can ask a gateway of mint M1 to pay an invoice. The gateway could pay the invoice via mint M2 and receive ecash from M1 in return. I always thought "you could run a mint for a thousand users on a Strike or a Blink backend without them even noticing the smallest thing". Now I think you could probably run a mint for 100k users without them noticing, if there are other gateways handling payments for everyone. Note: this is still experimental. Only paying works right now over the gateway, not receiving (more complicated). The bast part though is that it doesn't require any Cashu protocol changes and the mints don't have to give you permission to do this. It's all pretty nuts. View quoted note →
View quoted note →
Default avatar
npub1jq9d...9lgq 1 year ago
Awesome!! Each time I see things like this I like more #cashu !! I think is the right wat
Luke's avatar
Luke Luke@BitcoinNostr.com 1 year ago
You must be mistaken. I've heard many prominent shitcoiners and nocoiners both explain to me in great detail that development for bitcoin is dead.
Default avatar
npub1l7x3...dd3x 1 year ago
whilst I don't understand all the tech, I get the concept. congrats and thank you. I am sure I speak for many that don't understand half of what you devs do and we often stay quiet in case we look ignorant. We are all hugely appreciative. and we are trying to learn 🙃 keep up the great work, we are with you, even if you don't hear us.
pid 👨‍💻's avatar
pid 👨‍💻 pid@nostria.space 1 year ago
It's a cool idea, but wouldn't the KYCd example just incur a lot of risk. Most likely they also will ask after a few too many tx what the person is up to if it's out of the norm many. I don't think anybody would run that under their real name just to be accused of money laundering. This gateway would of course also be trust based right? I could accept somebodys ecash and then not pay out with my node and say good luck buddy, basically.
↑