π ANNOUNCING: And Other Stuff
@rabble,
@Alex Gleason,
@JeffG , and
@calle are joining forces to help #GrowNostr in these five key pillars:
- Onboarding & UX
- Communities
- Private messaging
- Commerce
- AI
We launched our first collaborative product, Chorus, last week at the Oslo Freedom Forum. Chorus, enables organizers to raise permissionless money for their cause with Facebook-style groups.
The collective is backed by a $10 million grant from
@jack , operating under the fiscal sponsorship of Open Collective Europe. The funds will be spent directly on contributors working collaboratively and strategically on these five key pillars.
Visit
AOS β Technology for Human Thriving
AOS builds freedom tech that enhances, explores, and empowers human thriving through open, decentralized systems.
for more information and updates.
Replies (54)
Donβt forget design/ creators things. Still often a forgotten thing I feel on Nostr. Todayβs people are used to images (video/graphic design etc) only. ποΈ
Iβm curious as to who handles the nsec for this npub.. is it on nsec bunker or is one individual trusted with it?
trying to learn the best way for an organization or company to go about this here
No wallet π€
Is there not keyy delegation yet?
Cashu is not permissionless. Users need permission from mints to transact.
10 million dollars could be used without misleading users.
o7
chorus was vibe coded in a week.
public and private groups are money, and can massively help onboard people into permissionless technologies.
this is our mission.
and now we can move faster than ever.
View quoted note βnoice. need help in AI things?
π
Nostr Cambrian explosion of usefull stuff imminent
Will AndOtherStuff be funding outside proposals that align with a given pillar and are implemented collaboratively?
Nitro enclaves are by far the best bet for companies and orgs, as long as not averse to AWS.
Cool
Great group of people there
Very positive development. Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
Solid crew. Looking forward to seeing what recipes this kitchen cooks up.
Interested to see what comes out of this
Good luck to the team, and nice work on the funding sources
Notes are fun but the Other Stuff is the future π
View quoted note β@Niel Liesmons is single handedly tackling 4 out of 5 key pillars
Doesnβt
https://nsec.app literally do that?
cc:
@brugemanSubscribed
what are nitro enclaves?
congrats!! "Onboarding & UX" is the biggest unsolved problem in nostr.
we canβt preach the benefits of βtaking your network with youβ to every app when no one can log into any app.
happy to help any way i can!
Or you could use NA π
Sort of, but the bigger issue is what happens if someone who knows the key leaves the company or org. Enclaves solve a bunch of management issues, like quasi-delegation, but they don't solve that core issue.
Or look at OpenBao
Thanks yeah, we did look at that, as well as closed-source stuff like Akeyless. It's all very cool stuff, but at end of the day either one or more human beings can know the secret, or no human being can ever. Sort of like an unavoidable binary there.
Or, smartcardsβ¦ Iβm thinking of working on something like that. 2FA for keys: a password and a physical token
Nice, cards are cool. Nosskey also has some neat stuff on the passkey/WebAuthn side.
GitHub
GitHub - ocknamo/nosskey-sdk: SDK for Passkey-Derived Nostr Identity a.k.a. Nosskey
SDK for Passkey-Derived Nostr Identity a.k.a. Nosskey - ocknamo/nosskey-sdk
It's that for businesses and corporate security in general it's tricky cause there is no higher level reset. For all this other stuff like Akeyless, it's still implicitly assumed there is some higher level reset if worse comes to worse.
You start your digital life in Nostr at the supreme court already, you lose you're out of appeals.
βAnd Other Stuffβ
Way to go
@jack !
This is indeed much better than creating your own app. π₯³
View quoted note βSo were you able to come up with a solution for yourself on this core issue?
No, feels like running up against the laws of physics (and sociology).
Way I see it, if a human being privately lays eyes on an nsec then we have to assume that nsec is locked to that human being forever. They may or may not have copied it, taken a photo, written it into their Rainman photographic memory, whatever, but for security's sake we have to assume that itβs locked to them forever.
Going further, if a human being *could have* privately lain eyes on a nsec (i.e. they had some access and we can't prove that they didn't make use of that access) we have to assume that they did. And so on. All the general corporate security assumptions.
In most cases there is no real way for Nostr account to be a practical thing to use without a the possibility of a human being laying eyes on the nsec. (It can be a very impractical thing to use, like sharded up the ying-yang, but that's another story.) And a corporate nsec just doesn't work any more once it's been forever-locked to a human being who could leave the company on bad terms (or is just a jerk). It has to be burned.
My solution is to focus on Nostr use cases within companies, mainly as a way to bring frontline workers who don't have any digital identity within their company systems into the social fold. Because each company controls every relay in such an internal Nostr network then you always have whitelisting/blacklisting to fall back on if an nsec is exposed. So relay as the highest level, not nsec.
Basically just avoiding the problem. Though enclaves still very useful for that use case, your work on nitro is groundbreaking stuff.
> In most cases there is no real way for Nostr account to be a practical thing to use without a the possibility of a human being laying eyes on the nsec.
If nsec is generated inside an enclave and bunker url is returned then no human has seen it.
If some "policy" was provided when nsec was generated, like "require m-of-n multisig to change perms, rotate the bunker url, change this policy, etc", then a board of directors can control the nsec without seeing it, and if one of humans leaves they can change the policy and the bunker url.
Does this make any sense, or is there still a fundamental flaw here and we're just kicking the can?
> If nsec is generated inside an enclave and bunker url is returned then no human has seen it.
That's true, but if the electricity fails and the ram clears then when? Of course you can have the code do two things at once, generate the nsec and then encrypt it to the key of another enclave and send it there as a backup, but then you need that other enclave to exist at the time you push the image. (If you allow informing an enclave of new backup enclaves after the fact via vsock then now the power has leaked outside anyway, that vector is now open.)
>If some "policy" was provided when nsec was generated, like "require m-of-n multisig to change perms, rotate the bunker url, change this policy, etc", then a board of directors can control the nsec without seeing it, and if one of humans leaves they can change the policy and the bunker url.
Yup, but still what if the ram clears? Or AWS decides to stop your machine for some arcane reason? Meaning you'd still need a way to get the nsec out of there. And if you have to get it out eventually then feels to me like you may as well just start with it outside in the first place, shard it and upload the shards to multiple enclaves, etc. (very expensive). End of the day it does feel like kicking the can to be honest.
For an individual user it's fine, no problem with them knowing their own nsec and keeping it locally while signing from a nitro enclave for convenience. That's all great stuff. It's just that with an company account I can't see any way that isn't kicking the can. Who knows though, sometimes solutions come round and bonk you on the head.
I would like to find out more about the AI ideas and plans the team have.
Sent you DM.
I want to know too, some people like
@Niel Liesmons @ hodlbod and myself have been working on these pillars for a while
Among other things they form the backend for a service called Privy that Farcaster users to abstract away the blockchain and make onboarding super familiar
Great moment for the #OtherStuff on #nostr π€π₯π
View quoted note βVery excited to see more communities development
This is awesome! I canβt wait to follow you alls work :)
Good people!
A rockstar team combined with a stellar mission can only mean one thing: The floodgates to nostr are about to be opened wide!
We have Frostr now. I havenβt tried it though.
I think itβs promising but the UX and description are something for very technical users not normies
Yeah even I didnβt understand it at a quick glance
Whatβs the difference between Chorus and Kiwi or Satellite? Those were/are both for communities as well.
