Thread

Do you have any sources or more info on that?

It’s a Liquid wallet but they call it “self-custody”. Yes it has an option to withdraw to chain but come on… https://x.com/bullbitcoin_/status/1979202192075616348

I would rather use liquid than spark. Why isn’t liquid wallet self custody?

I mean it is L-BTC but still self custody, no?

So you're saying the funds are stored in Liquid and only shown as BTC? That would be really terrible and very dishonestly promoted

Yeah, it's not a lie to refer to self-custody of Bitcoin IOU's as 'self-custody'. If anything, it's the "Bitcoin-only" claim that's the lie.

Read the tweet and their screenshot - they describe it as “a self-custodial…wallet” and while they do allow for self-custody (much better than most other Liquid wallets!) they just label the liquid balance as “Instant Payments (Liquid and Lightning)”. They don’t actually support Lightning, of course, only swaps. It’s not clear at all from any of their marketing or UI that this balance is, in fact, not self-custody.

They specifically say multi-network capability: Bitcoin, lightning and liquid.

I am a big liquid fan for multiple reasons. That said, liquid bitcoin is held in custody by the liquid federation, and permission from a federation member is necessary to "peg out" back to main chain bitcoin. This is seamlessly handled by the wallet software. Fees a little high for small amounts, but increasingly minimal as amounts diminish significance of base fee. I am a current user of Misty Breez.

Yes.. AND they specifically said "Bitcoin-only". Make of that contradiction what you will. 🤷

So is nostr:nprofile1qqsrf5h4ya83jk8u6t9jgc76h6kalz3plp9vusjpm2ygqgalqhxgp9gpzfmhxue69uhk7enxvd5xz6tw9ec82cspr9mhxue69uhhxetwv35hgtnwdaekvmrpwfjjucm0d59vq0t7 with cashu support bitcoin only wallet or no?

No. Let me put it this way: a self-custodial, liquid-only wallet is not a "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet". A self-custodial, cashu-only wallet is not a "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet". Adding a separate self-custodial Bitcoin wallet to either of these would not change the fact that they are not "self-custodial, Bitcoin-only". They would still be self-custodial, however. If a wallet is self-custodial; but, it is not "a self-custodial, Bitcoin-only wallet", that must mean it's not "Bitcoin-only".

nostr:nprofile1qqsqa6p85dhghvx0cjpu7xrj0qgc939pd3v2ew36uttmz40qxu8f8wq8vdeta provide basis for this comment

the comment criticizes promotion of bull bitcoin wallet as misleading on fund storage, referencing this praise post: nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzprgyz39687nvvdw2tswj727xhtp5wyn2tqcd4prl40pjgwcmkud0q9qrsepsxscngdrzvyekvcfkvvmrxdtrvy6kxvtyxfnrycnrxe3xzcenxsmnzv3kvy6nsvesv3snsdphveskycenxg6rxc33vf3rwvtpvcqzprgyz39687nvvdw2tswj727xhtp5wyn2tqcd4prl40pjgwcmkud078xwu9. bull bitcoin's site and blog explicitly describe the wallet as non-custodial, emphasizing user control via lightning network and privacy features. no evidence found of deliberate lies; it may stem from confusion between their custodial exchange services and the separate self-custody wallet app. https://www.bullbitcoin.com/blog/scaling-bull-bitcoins-non-custodial-services-with-the-lightning-network https://wallet.bullbitcoin.com

OK, your definition is clear. And of course, we need a clear definition. But I had it loosely lumped together: cashu, liquid, lightning, on-chain are Bitcoin-only wallets because any abstraction is in 1:1 correspondence with sats with different level of tradeoffs.

That's totally fair. I don't think anyone who has a good idea what liquid is is going to be confused - which is why I included the qualifier "If anything.... " in my original post. But, if I were someone who had no idea what liquid was - and I was excited to try out this new "Bitcoin-only" wallet - once I did, I might feel like I was intentionally given a false impression what to expect.

It is (in part) a liquid wallet, ie (in part) not at all self-custody. Sadly enough people openly lie about this that LLMs have picked it up.

Bull Bitcoin exchange is non-custodial. The exchange never holds any of it's customers funds.

something about liquid being custodial

liquid network uses a federated model where users deposit bitcoin to federation members (watchmen) for l-btc issuance, requiring trust in their multi-sig security for redemptions—often called federated custody rather than fully self-custodial like on-chain bitcoin. this is the basis for claims that bull bitcoin's liquid support isn't pure self-custody, as marketing emphasizes "bitcoin-only" without clear disclosure. see the root post here: nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzq4038f2c5w7m0y5rm4t78qjxwlcszgm8c3n829cuh27963v5y3jcq9qr2dtxxyekzdf48psnxcnyvgmnjv3cxdjxgdfhv5ensv35xcmnwe33xqcnyvekxa3ngd3kxu6nzde3vd3xzcnrx4jrgdfexsergd348qqzq4038f2c5w7m0y5rm4t78qjxwlcszgm8c3n829cuh27963v5y3jc70h236 blockstream https://blockstream.com/liquid/