Replies (101)
Phones are just API’s. And, just like Twitter and Reddit, they can change the terms of the deal any time they want.
I was also thinking that when you first signup to Damus and you want to zap, you need to select a wallet to “pay invoice”. So maybe the wording there is the problem. I don’t think Apple came as far as to selecting a lighting wallet, but maybe?
I love Damus. I really do. And I respect how much Apple prioritizes privacy and safety - and this requires a lot of oversight and tons of red tape.
I don’t see a future for this on iOS. I hope I’m wrong, but Bitcoin and Lightning are about self sovereignty. Apple has proven that they can be trusted with user data. But they need to strongly centralize in order to pull that off.
I enjoy my Apple devices, but I’m heading for de-googled Android.
DUH
Agree on the zap splits, disagree on the mining fees. That would be absurd.
I'm pretty sure it'll clear up soon. Zapping is a new approach, and the lower tiers at Apple are playing it safe to keep their jobs.
They made the rule, doesn’t matter how they explain it. Apple sucks and so does Google.
How do web browsers get away with letting you do anything through them according to this policy. Why are Nostr “browsers” (clients) treated differently than http “browsers” (clients) I suspect it’s just because enough people would be outraged at taxing their web activity because they grew up with the web before phone apps? But both http and Nostr are protocols?
What requests from governments does Apple honor ?
Building decentralized apps in a centralized OS gives them the power to censor and ban the apps whenever they want.
Even if it follows the rules they can change the rules anytime they want.
What’s stopping anyone from just posting a receiving address on their profile or LN invoice? Apple can’t really stop that right? No social media app could stop that.
Not when actions and events can have multiple, unknown meanings.
A like in the app can cause your bot to transfer 10k sats, in the background, to the note author.
Repost + like combo could mean "send 50k sats".
Replying with "Love it, your art has inspired me to grow 100x" could be code-word for telling the bot to send 100k sats.
Etc etc
Its already happening, just in small scales. Apple cannot ban "likes" or cryptic replies that *might* trigger a remote payment.
😓
Disagree on mining fees as they seem to be equivalent to bank transfer fees (settlement fees).
All this BS to protect what? Apple Cash 🤣 ?
We need a more equitable environment that fosters innovation and benefits both developers and users.
#zapsforever
Do not be disheartened Will……..
I have always been taught that there is a work around to solve any problem……
You have a lot of people in your corner rooting for you…….
Head up and shoulders back……
You got this!
But those guidelines could litterally apply to most apps where transactions for other purchases wouldn’t be allowed.
Including PayPal, all cRyPtO exchanges… and ironically… iMessage 💀 (sure it’s not an App Store app but the doublethink is nonetheless obvious)
Apple checkmated themselves
Apple would simply like to receive its share of the cake. A percentage of all the ‘zaps’ carried out on Nostr. So, projecting Apple’s vision tantamount to monetize Damus or otherwise selling almost half of the platform to Apple-incubator. In other words, put a price on Damus so that it can be controlled by Apple-devs..
#Nostr on Damus, is a project that can pay off in the long term & therefore starts to interest biggest companies!
Apple isn’t the only one...
So dictatorial Apple needs to embrace new innovation in a much fairer fashion
You can absolutely make a case to them that these are Nostr events and no monetary exchange is happening in-app. Ask them to please provide proof of monetary exchange occuring in-app.
Android
I appreciate the struggle you’re going thru @jb55
I can offer that while I was a tiny bit hesitant to adopt zaps at first, I now find them indispensable. I’ll easily give up Apple than give up zaps if it comes down to that.
Zaps merge the irl experience and the digital experience, bringing both together in a more meaningful way.
Android porting in 3, 2, 1...
Strongly considering. I’ve made this switch once before and there are reasons I’m back on Apple, but the App Store nonsense is becoming too much of a liability
Need to be outside the walled gardens
View quoted note →Think how much time/energy you could waste on a sudden lock-in imposed by Apple, you have to deeply evaluate the real advantages in the short term to use it. Perhaps a macOS platform has some value for specific tasks, but an iPhone... really?
We have to push to break up the monopoly! Knock down those walls!
You're better than apples fiat oligarchy, Will.
Spend more time building for us all, and the rest of us will zap you more. We want to, don't let apple gatekeep us.
But for real dude, fuck apple. They aren't friends.
In my experience android was more bloated and my hardware experience was always inferior when not on Apple. The iPhone just works - I chose to give up power features on my phone for a more streamlined device since I use my computer more anyway.
BUT I totally agree with your point. That means Apple has far too much control over my phone experience. Also, I wasn’t aware of options like GrapheneOS when I left android the first time. A de-googled android seems like a fantastic option now.
Let us meet beyond 'Walled Gardens' -- WE are free -- Bitcoin ftw
Yes, try a Pixel with GrapheneOS (paradox!), probably it will change your mind.
However any mid-high model with a clean custom rom should work fine.
Absolutely; iphone does just work (provided you know the arcane and secret never-taught 'language' of gestures, pauses, directional swipes and incantations to get the flashlight on) -- at the expense of complete access and control to all content, location, speaker, mic, etc. -- There's a reason journalists with sensitive meetings/interviews are/were often told NOT to bring Apple devices ... because even if the journalist is agreeable to 'discretion' the device itself ...often will blow cover/broadcast/record etc. --- Apple owns whatever that device does and where ever it goes.
That’s what I’m thinking! Currently researching the available and upcoming pixel models and trying to get myself over the mental hurdle of switching - even the little things like iMessage are surprisingly hard to leave behind. Will be well worth it in the long run!
👀
That's bechare people still build for Apple and buy Apple devices.For instance you created damus for apple first and may be Android later because you believe thats where most of users are. Which is not true at all.
What about going the web-browser route to circumvent App Store?
Users could still bookmark the page on their Home Screen so it feels like an app
Welcoming me to centralization.
This is by design. I’m actually surprised they allow any “crypto” related app on the App Store.
Apple will never allow anyone to bypass them taking 30% it’s that simple
Ya bro they the techno kings and we the digital slaves..thats already been established for decades now....what we gonna do about it?
They said the same thing about the king of England.
Could you make Damus into a web app ? Then we all just save Damus to our devices like an app but then apple wouldn’t have control. That could possibly be a solution for android users too. But I’m not expert just a fan of your work. Keep it up!
I think Nvidia might be the apple of the future maybe 10years or so.
Yeah they wont delete snapchat or instagram or other drug selling apps
Apple will probably veto this also. 🤔
Ya just never know what's what anymore.
Not worried at all! (at least in the EU) Alternative AppStores/ Sideloading is what Big Tech with high fences have to comply with in the future…
Will help a brother out
The Add Recipient feature in Blue Wallet (aka send to many) might be a problem.
Frankly, both credit cards and fiat apps like PayPal also process fees. And store apps like Amazon send a part of the transaction to taxes. Meaning there are many other examples of transactions not going 100% to the recipient (particularly due to fiat taxes).
I wish I was a Lawyer to help you find the perfect legal loophole.. but I am not! 😞
Do you plan to release an uncrappled version on the EUSSR when they force crapple to allow extra stores?
Yes, the previous functionality can be restored with the flip of a switch, which i plan to flip on in non-appstore versions.
Mais quels moyens sur le plan juridique avez-vous contre ce plan pendable de Apple , si vous ne faites rien il y en d'autres et cela je peux parier là dessus de ces grands qui pactisent tous avec les grands leaders lesquels d'avant la pandémie voulaient réglementer le secteur des influenceurs et en même se doter sur le plan technologique pour se préparer à cette nouvelle ère des plateformes décentralisées !? Trop dégoûtée par les pouvoirs politiques
Time for Android.....
Dump #Apple. Never buy #Apple products.
Ça va bientôt être le retour d'Alphabet Google qui est son IA les GAMAM se transforment petit à petit élaborent d'autres outils surlesquels nos gouvernants vont leur laisser la gestion surtout en lien avec le secteur de l'armement et des armées la course de l'espace trop chers pour eux la NASA a été la première avec Space X ces derniers jours l'agence européenne de l'Espace qui passe sous la coupole d'Amazon Blue sheppard ..
Pourquoi et vous disposez de grosses équipes William ou pas!?
Rien ne l'empêche depuis une dizaine de les titiller sur l'aspect juridique mais ce serait trop compliqué puisque vous dépendez de la juridiction canadienne. Et je ne pense pas que Trudeau fasse le poids sur les leaders américains ni européens à moyen il s'allie sur le plan stratégique au gouvernement brexiteur anglais ..'
Pas du tout Apple Amazon AWs d'orientent de plus en plus sur l'Asie et plus tard sur l' Afrique,puis l'Amerique Centrale et du Sud les futurs grands marchés en termes de populations.'
Savez que ces dernièrs temps toutes les banques ont créé un système gratuit pour l'instant de transfert dnagebtv tel celui de Strike de Jack Mallers ou pas quite à perdre sur leurs anciens systèmes de transactions financières trop coûteuses. La course à l'argent numérique est bien lancée !?
Poudre aux yeux des citoyens, nos leaders européens ne recherchent que des niches auprès des citoyens qui ne suivent pas l'évolution de nos systèmes juridiques dans lesquels nous serions tributaires de dettes que nous n'avons pas été en demande ...Leurs endettements sans consultations d'aucune sorte nous et les futures nous serons dans le contrainte de payer à moins que nous acceptions de faire avec des créanciers qui devront prendre leur revanche sur nous qui les considerons tels que des dictateurs ..'
J'ai jamais eu l'Apple depuis que j'ai vu Jobsacec ses Apple 1 puis 2 (la *bonne affaire fiat* course addictive à l'achat ..) j'étais plus Motorola, Nokia.. qu'Apple
Ce ne sera pas leur intérêt en termes de taxation les lois influencers vont de plus en plus se démultiplier au niveau de tous les réseaux sociaux ce qui entraineront des revenus venant de ce secteurs qui n'etaient pas trop contributeurs en termes de taxes sur les revenus
Vous avez bien trouver les bons mots tout simplement 😂
Sauf qu'il ne soit pas d'étre seul dans cette bataille, il y a tant de créateurs, développeurs...cette histoire devraient tous les sensibiliser sur notre Monde de stratégies géré par certains de la technologie qui en ont fait force de domination financière qui est paradoxale puisque la Technologie est juste ingenieuse
L'alliance fait force
Pour un temps je parie qu'ils vont de même qu'Apple
Bonne idée
L'essentiel est qu'il ait une communauté non seulement qui discutaille mais qui met la main sur la pâte pour travailler sur des systèmes auxquels nous ne dépendrions de ces mastadontes de l'informatique qui ne pensent qu'au Pouvoir et son côté hubristique
Cela va plus loin que cela on est sur de la domination
Merci
💜
Kif kif sous peu Google était juste embêté par Sam qui a sorti son IA alors que cachait ses travaux d'ailleurs avait dû licencier des ingénieurs qui ont vendu la mèche
Vraiment et c'est vraiment dégoûtant leur coup pendable je me demande si vous étiez passé par l'approche écrite n'aurait été plus judicieuse au lieu d'échanger téléphoniquement avec eux ,Cela vous aurait donné le Temps de consulter des juristes spécialisés dans cette affaire ...un sorte de bluff le temps qui aurait retardé l'échéance. C'est en cela les informaticiens sont différents des vendeurs de produits, de plus vous étiez en plus conférence à Oslo.
Il est pas le seul ils sont quasiment devenus des hommes d'affaires pourquoi à Vivatech il y a tant d'hommes d'affaires !!?
Vous pouvez le reposter à tout instant jusqu'à ce que leur système ait de bugs
!?
C'est ce que j'ai dû marteler sur quasiment tous mes réponses 🫂
I am honestly surprised they don't just have an outright section regarding Cryptocurrencies or handling of legal tender and the likes.
For instance, one could get zapped in Germany but it would basically "mean nothing", as it is not a legal tender here, at all (last i checked, at least).
Credit where it's due, they left a loophole in the guidelines for themselves to abuse it... b'tards. -.-
C'est juste une question de repenser la *voie* ,tout en restant sur leur grilles le temps d'une création de site où sur lequel vous seriez indépendant ...en 6 mois vous avez bien interagi avec de tant d'informaticiens avec tant d'ingéniosité diverse et variée vous devriez compulser certaines réponses de travailler ensemble sir un support autonome
Do not use apple
Smart!
have you considered publishing it to altstore.io?
haven’t looked into if that violates the appstore tos or not.
🤔
I’ve heard it said apple owns the first or second most valuable network in iOS. But what is the future of a centralized and censored network? How do you build on a foundation you don’t own and can get taken away with a push of a button? How do you build on a foundation you own in isolation?
Indeed, the conundrum of network effects persist.
What’s been your analysis on whether iOS the place to stay/build? What are alternatives?
Thanks for your work, #Damus rocks.
This only ensures that someone develops a Nostr-like phone
As people get sick of the censorship, the free market finds solutions to problems, just like you did
Imagine a cheap phone with all the functionality of iPhone and limitless open source apps downloadable from NostrStore, itself decentralized and uncensorable
Their hardening grip is what will ensure they lose control
I posted it on Twitter to Will when he first started Damus, but now I am locked out of my Twitter account because I am bAd. It was along the lines of not posting hateful content, but the issue is who defines hateful content. They leave their contacts vague to give themselves more leverage.
Although there are lawyers in my family I’m inclined to agree with Shakespeare on this one .
AAPL will make that eval... :-) no need to become expert.
I thought Epic got this rule overturned a while back... No?🫤
I just copy and pasted this from their current guidelines.
While Apple was once an innovative company, reaching the pinnacle of innovation has led them to adopt a more passive and defensive stance. However, it's crucial to emphasize that this decision could ultimately lead to significant mistakes, as many historical companies have experienced. In the end, Bitcoin and Nostr cannot be stopped, as they are destined to become a worldwide force, regardless of any attempts at regulation. Innovation cannot be stifled.
Browsers don’t use their apis and store. They are not native apps, they just display web content (simplified version). There’s nothing they can really do about browsers.
I hope this doesn't break anyone's heart, but Apple has seemingly been on the evil side for many years now.
I don’t really think that is the answer, atleast I’m not satisfied by it. How is DuckDuckGo not a native app on iOS? Damus “just displays Nostr content”. The tool they are using to extract changes in Damus is the threat of being removed from the app market which would be the same threat to any web browser on iOS (DuckDuckGo, brave, etc). If they were to try to enforce this policy their. Our intuition tells us no one would try to extract the same concessions from a browser be those are ‘different’ but. But really how are they different from Damus? If the smartphone App Store had been developed before the internet/web would apples policies not have attempted the same policies on the ‘http viewer’? When Damus pulls a tag from a relay it decides how to view that with the Damus UI. When Firefox pulls an <h1> tag, Firefox decides how to view that with its UI.
Let's keep the 'gift' outside your app, like @elon does with twitter it has a price to use the biggest mobile-phone-customer-base. The price is the government intervention. Web Apps are the way to keep pushing for this. Your app is awesome doing onboard for #nostr. You have done so much for human society !!
Wouldn't argue that about miner fees. 100% of the gift goes to the receiver. The sender just also pays a fee on top, but the fee is not part of the gift.
Wow, seems like it should have been an obvious win for Epic
