Replies (82)
The pleb home miners are winning.
We need more solo miners. 🔥
4 different solo miners using OCEAN also found blocks this week:
- 888094 found by Penguin
- 888283 found by Munich International Mining
- 888418 found by ZettaPOW
- 888908 found by Elektron Energy
weird how that gets forgotten? people still conflate solo with lotto
oh that's awesome, cool that it came from a self-hosted instance of public pool
Luvverly Jubberly
Elaborate?
Luke! I want to zap you! It's not possible sadly
Sorry. I got solo mining wrong. I was not aware that mining companies like mim participate in solo mining.
#bitaxe marketing like this will keep the network decentralised into the next epoch and defend us from government overreach. Keep it up guys (and note to self: “stop sitting on the sidelines you prick”)
View quoted note →solo mining bulls in control
I am available now for a 1-1 convo.-!!
You can connect with me via simpleX Chat with the link below ⏬
How can a solo miner mine a block? I didn't know that was possible!
Sure, ff course, the higher the hashrate, the higher the chance, but even a small chance is still a chance :D
On it nevent1qqsyt9hnp57de6s2rldyygkujdzjsj4hjuj579url29z93stxe4erhskxan8q
Sadly not me but maybe one day…
Nice to see, a few more would be great for the regular Ocean pool too..
Distributed hash ftw. Amazing!
This is the way
Uhh, how do I solo mine with ocean?
By the way, can you guys please make lightning payouts easier? Leaving Braiins for Ocean was a breeze. Straight to my Muun wallet.
I agree! I only have 4 miners and it takes about 2 months to get a payout!
It would be great if they would support custodial lighting.
running knots 🧘♂️ q - why not a mining rig that matches with knots? 🤔
Bitcoin is such an incredible ethical network it seems to favor solo miners more often nowadays 🤓
Ocean lightning payouts are badass uncompromising Bolt12 payouts compared to Braiins which offers no privacy.....imo this is a you problem not an ocean problem......try harder
It’s just not user friendly. We’re not going to win like this, with your mentality.
@MAHDOOD Cryptoeconomics ⬆️
Fixed, I think. (When will nostr support non-custodial / BOLT12?)
This is very promising!
NerdMiners are a scam and will never find a block. Even Satoshi's 2009 CPU miner has a better chance today.
Conflate? The miner was self-hosting Public Pool. It doesn't get any more solo than that.
They chose not to, but that's common sense.
Keeping the entire reward is 100% irrelevant to decentralization and not something to celebrate.
bitcoin needs p2pool with LN payouts for real mining decentralization
Someone just earned over 3 BTC with their Umbrel and probably a Bitaxe. I'm celebrating no matter what you say.
So OCEAN wouldn't refuse a template that excluded the pool fee?
Perfect!
Yea yea - but it was a fun project and it’s run of the solar panels so no worries
By the way, I built it myself so it was dirt cheap.
Yeah I hear you, but I don't think sacrificing epic sovereign tech to onboard a few NPCs is really worth it(Braiins' approach to lightning payments)
It's really LND that you should be complaining to about their lack of BOLT12 support. Or maybe WoS or whatever lightning wallet you're using.
I think true Heatpunks like myself just accept the reality that it's hard to build on lightning and I'm willing to fill the gap by putting in some effort ony end.
I agree?
the network wouldn't which is what's relevant
What's relevant here is if OCEAN would broadcast that block find or not. Yes or no, if a miner submits a valid block find to OCEAN but they built the template in such a way that it excluded the pool fee and 100% of the reward goes to the miner would OCEAN accept it?
Ok now you talk
Luke says that “How you choose to split up the reward, is irrelevant to mining being decentralized” that’s exactly opposite
Ocean is the central server that coordinates the coinbase split and sends it to all the miners connected to their server. Without Ocean you are no longer pool mining because ocean is the server that every miner is relying on for the split.
Any pool with client/server architecture (including OCEAN or Stratumv2) can just reject your templates or refuse to include you in the coinbase before you even find a block.
To decentralize anything you first have to remove the central point of control.
If I am mining on Sv2 or DATUM pool and they reject my template, how has template construction been decentralized?
the block goes directly to the network from the miner via their own node. have you really not looked into how datum works?
because miners are the ones making the templates.
it's as simple as that.
decentralized reward coordination is a separate issue and utterly irrelevant to Bitcoin, regardless it is being figured out but it is extremely difficult to manage in a scalable way.
I love making my own block templates using DATUM.
you're a solo miner.
This is the way.
You're not giving me a direct yes or no answer so I'll assume that you are trying to avoid admitting OCEAN would not accept a valid block find from one of their miners that excludes the pool fee.
Yes, I understand that the miner broadcasts their block find. What you are acting coy about is the fact that unless OCEAN is broadcasting the valid block find as well then there is a higher risk of that block being orphaned. The average miner doesn't have well connected direct node connections globally like a large mining pool does.
For you to tell me that OCEAN depends on their users' home networking connections to propagate blocks across the network is asinine.
👀
I'm praying my numbers come up!
Alarm?! Isn’t that a good thing? Solo block award potential will awake the globe.
You seem to be under the impression that a pool must broadcast a block to minimize risk of it being orphaned. This isn't remotely true and was a weird part of your celebration with the FutureBit block last month.
Blocks are tiny and propagate really fast. We....kind of fought a war about maintaining that. Remember?
Really don't appreciate you asserting that I'm trying to be disingenuous or evasive here, you genuinely don't seem to have a firm grasp of where the bottlenecks actually lie.
You're imagining that it's better for a miner to tell a pool about a block and leverage their supposed superior connectivity rather than tell the network about it directly.
Amazingly, adding a middle man only slows things down.
You're still avoiding the direct question that was asked. Additionally you neglect to acknowledge pool node's connectivity as a factor in the race to mine blocks.
Weak
Dude, broadcasting blocks direct to the network > getting the pool to do it.
If you don't understand this you're a moron.
Yes OCEAN could be stupid and refuse to broadcast a block if it wanted, but it isn't unique compared to any other node. YOU can refuse to broadcast OCEAN blocks if you want with your node. Is it going to have any effect? No.
Bitcoin Network Monitor - DSN Research Group, KASTEL @ KIT
Bitcoin Network Monitoring and Research at KIT, DSN Resarch Group
Which is faster?
Solution found goes 1 hop to your home node and then fans out, with N varying nodes before reaching a major mining node.
Solution found goes 1 hop to a pool's node and then 1 hop to other major mining nodes.
Less hops is faster.
Love ya buddy 😁
Are we still talking about solo mining? DATUM is the only solution that even provides a second broadcast source as an option. Lotto solo mining ONLY does the home broadcast. So even if we refused to do so, it would still not be any worse than your alternatives.
Of course we'd accept any valid block. That's a stupid assumption on your part. But the point is even if we didn't, it wouldn't be any worse than any other solo mining solution. The others all only broadcast from the miner's own node.
Why do you assume a miner's node has to be a dingy Raspberry Pi at home running exclusively over Tor?
If a miner cares about such a thing he can run their node on AWS and add a bunch of addnode= to their configuration, just like Ocean or anyone else can do it.
If they can afford enough ASICs to find blocks with certain regularity they surely can afford to rent a basic bare metal server to host their node.
Just because they make their own templates it doesn’t mean mining is decentralized. What if my template asks for the full reward your node won’t grant me that
You can still reject those self created templates. Because your Ocean node finds the block and broadcasts it to all the miners connected to your node.
Ok let me ask you like this: when you remove Ocean - who coordinates the split?
If enough miners exclude OCEAN from the payout you would go bankrupt. Incentives matter, why shouldn't miners on your pool keep 100% of the reward?
How about if you don't want to be precived as acting coy you try answering direct questions with direct answers.
Large pools are directly connected to each other with WireGuard tunnels globally, that's where the term Super Node comes from. They do this so that when they find a block the other super nodes know about it nearly instantly so that they can minimize the risk of having a block orphaned.
An average home user doesn't have that kind of connectivity and there is a higher risk of their blocks being orphaned because of it. That's all I'm saying so don't spin like I think pools have to be the broadcaster.
It was not a weird celebration that we pointed out our Apollo block find wasn't orphaned, it is a note worthy accomplishment and a testament to the way John has engineered his product.
The point is if you refused to do so then OCEAN wouldn't be doing as Mich for decentralization as you portrayed. I'm glad to hear from you directly that you would not refuse a valid block find if your pool fee was excluded.
That's the most retarded conclusion you could have drawn from this dialog. You have sucessfully made up an entire narative in your own head unrelated to my points. Thank you for making it painfully clear you're a complete douche bag incapable of abstract thought beyond a 4th grade level.
I suppose this is the criteria OCEAN uses to define "valid"?
Latency has nothing to do with compute.
Ignore the incentives… that always works well…
I see where you are coming from. I can set it up technically, that’s not an issue. I have had nodes before and channels setup.
What I believe though is that home mining is the future for many reasons. We cannot use L1 payouts for that, especially in the future. To onboard home miners, to scale on that front, it needs to be as effortlessly as possible to get paid on an L2+.
Larger mining corps will always exist, but I do think with the proper products coming onto the market (look at the Canaan mini3, it’s brilliant) and good/easy user experience, home mining can grow to 50% of the hash rate. But not with this L2 payout experience.
I love Bitcoin and what it stands for, but in this world financial anonymity is not realistic. It would be wise for ocean to offer other forms of L2 payout.
It does in this case. If you care about validating and broadcasting your own blocks as fast as possible you don't want to run the node in a cheapo VPS that is timesharing the physical CPU with a thousand other virtual machines.
But besides this irrelevant non sequitur my point still stands: nothing stops any serious miner from having his own "pool-grade" low latency & well connected node. It's orders of magnitude easier and cheaper than running a big mining farm.
Correct.
Ocean already offers "L2" payouts in the most sovereign way possible....BOLT12 Lightning. What more could you ask for?
Do you think that LN URL and Wallet of Satoshi are an "L2"
Also if the Cannan Mini3 has an ROI of infinity under most electric prices/intermittent use cases. But I'm glad they took a stab at the Hashrate Heating market.
It’s the best home miner out of the box currently. Efficiency is pretty good at 20j/th. For sure, consumer electricity prices are pretty bad. I use it to warm the office and we have solar. Will definitely buy another one for the living room. Turn off the gas.
Cool, just realize that you would almost certainly make more sats by running the gas and buying Bitcoin.
But I get it, there are reasons to mine other than pure profit. Mining is fun!
Oh I know. I’m just doing it for hash rate decentralization.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
