do you sleep? 🤣

Yeah this should be interesting 🍿

😬 ... awkward ...

Are monero txs now traceable?

Read the comments. These supposed bitcoiners blindly believe outlandinsh claims without verifying just because they like the "conclusion".

Its still getting delisted everywhere so i doubt it, but there is already work underway to go to full membership proofs and the option to increase ring size in the meantime. The best thing about monero is that its always incrementally improving where it matters most, unlike bitcoin.

Show me some evidence that this application can really track xmr transactions

Considering many believe you can't reliably trace bitcoin I very much doubt monero can.

Interesting. Haven’t dug into this but does it work by being a part of a mix yourself?

I dislike shitcoins all day every day, but after watching your video (and reading the post) - the presented details do not match the claims made...? I don't understand the logic behind determining decoys and the robustness of doing so from your demo video.

I have a way to manually identify yourself as a decoy but I haven't automated that yet. What I want to do is use known "view keys" to identify decoys, because if you have the view key you know the "true" tx in which you spent your own coin, do if you've been used as a decoy you can automatically filter that out. Right now it uses two heuristics: merge analysis and recency bias. If you received coins in two very close blocks and then spend them together, your ring, which should contain keys from random blocks, will have two suspiciously close blocks where you held both inputs. So you can identify those as the real spender's coins. Recency bias takes advantage of the fact that most decoy selection algorithms are biased toward selecting keys from recently created utxos. Ones that are significantly older stick out like a sore thumb. Other metrics I want to add include bot detection (which is based on identifying txs with many outputs, since these tend to be created by automated software rather than a real person) and taint tree analysis (which creates trees of possible senders fanning out backward in time from a known destination).

claiming this tool "traces monero transactions" is more disingenuous bullshit. and your video is a whole lot of "oh well this is a bad example..." "so if you have off-chain data on a tx..." "this is demo info I put in earlier..." sad. good visualization tool though

Which claim doesn't match? A lot of people seem to be assuming, wrongly, that this is a *fully automated* tracing tool. It's not. Most of it is manual.

This looks like a good tool for helping to visualize the monero blockchain actually. It doesn't trace transactions, don't get excited.

Yeah it gives the impression that it is a relatively easy or automated way to trace and deanonymize monero transactions, which isn't the case. There is nothing new here..

The video is for people that are in bitcoin to stay in bitcoin or maybe some smart people will think its cool and switch to monero. Laughable. How are people defending servalance money and nobody calling them out on it. Linux people wake up you are the monero target audience we fit like hand and glove or mulder and scully.

Its a great way to keep track of ALL that *off-chain data* you've been collecting on Monero txs 😂 and it'll tell you if some inputs are suspiciously old. very low bar for "tracing tool"

no

your shit coin is paper

Kunark

The video you linked actually inadvertently explains why Monero is untraceable. I made a YouTube comment explaining why

Embarrassing imo

Every ring contains at least one old tx bt default IIRC

Not really in regards to a good visualization tool. Much desired.

16^16, you’re tarded

Manual 16^16 bud

So far he’ll only respond if you lick the tip of his bs

they always have been but it seems to take a considerable amount of manual work I only have two automated heuristics right now and they only identify the sender in about 1 in 15 cases I plan to add about four more automated heuristics but I still think you'll need a considerable amount of off chain data entry to get really good data

Because Monero uses pedersen commitments even with quantum computers it's amount privacy can't be broken 🚫👁 Goodluck Super 💀

Lol I've already seen several users challenge you to trace their Monero transactions and nothing but crickets from you 🦗🦗🦗 "they only identify the sender in about 1 in 15 cases" In other words - random chance 🤦‍♂️ "I still think you'll need a considerable amount of off chain data" Monero never claims to protect the privacy of things that are external to it's blockchain...no crypto can

Then help me fix it please I'd like it to be up to par with the ciphertrace tool that inspired me I'm sure they have a lot more data to work with but I suspect you can get pretty far with on chain heuristics and maybe it's not that hard to source whatever off chain data ciphertrace is using

I replied to your comment, looks like you misunderstand how monero works. You said stealth addresses are used once and never seen again but in reality they appear on the blockchain multiple times: when the recipient receives money, when he or she spends that money, and possibly multiple other times as decoys

Someone challenged me to trace his transaction to its source yesterday on Bawdy Anarchist's twitter space and I denied the ability to do so. I want to build more automatic decoy eliminators because without them you need lots of off chain data that I don't know how to get or that is expensive to acquire. I am not sure how far you can get using only chain heuristics to identify the true spender; I suspect it's higher than 1 in 15 but lower than 100%. One monero dev offered a helpful cli tool that detects all instances when a stealth address has appeared in a ring; this is something my tool is currently missing and would greatly help with building taint trees. I hope that through community effort my tool continues to improve in effectivelness. The bad guys shouldn't be the only ones with a tool like this, and before yesterday only ciphertrace had a tool like this (that I know of anyway)

more lies lol since you insist on acting like a 12 yr old I'll treat you like one in the context of a cryptocurrency a "transaction tracing tool" would be able to identify the source, destination and amount of transactions. random chance identifies the sender in "about 1 of 15 cases" the recipient that is published on-chain is a one time stealth address. not useful for tracing since SAs break the transaction graph. and amounts remain opaque. additionally, if it takes "a considerable amount of off-chain information" to *actually use* NOBODY is tracing monero transactions. Because that off-chain data generally doesn't exist. (may be exceptions concerning individuals of interest targeted by 3 letter agencies. know your threat model) this tool doesn't trace monero transactions, by definition. it's a block explorer. just let it be a block explorer and quit trying to use semantics to push inaccurate fud.

The point is that SAs break the transaction graph, making tracing the flow of funds impossible. 1. each SA only appears for a single output 2. it's impossible to know which is the true spend

> in the context of a cryptocurrency a "transaction tracing tool" would be able to identify the source, destination and amount of transactions I don't think it has to automatically do that. A tracing tool is good if it helps automate some parts of the tracing task even if other parts remain manual. > random chance identifies the sender in "about 1 of 15 cases" But random guessing uses no data. This tool uses *data* to identify the sender. A random guess would not be grounds for doing anything. A statistical analysis is worth a lot more. > the recipient that is published on-chain is a one time stealth address. not useful for tracing since SAs break the transaction graph. They do not break the transaction graph. Stealth addresses do not appear just once, they appear again whenever the recipient spends his money and possibly in other transactions as decoys. Filtering out the decoys leaves you with only the true spend tx. You can do that *because* there is a tx graph that stealth addresses appear multiple times in. > and amounts remain opaque Except part of the amount is visible (the fee) and gives you info about the amount in the outputs as well as in the inputs > additionally, if it takes "a considerable amount of off-chain information" to *actually use* NOBODY is tracing monero transactions Seems like you contradict yourself here. First you say "nobody" and argue that the data doesn't exist, then you admit some people might do it and governments might have that data. Not a good look.

Exactly. I had another look at the block explorer and docs, then made a correction comment and came to the same conclusion

The comment didn’t post. Keep in mind YouTube creators can delete comments on their videos…

> it's impossible to know which is the true spend Not impossible. My tool *automatically* detects the true spend 1 in 15 times. Better tools (like ciphertrace's) do better. Lightning is superior.

There’s a reason the IRS never made a bounty for Lightning and said it wasn’t an issue in their report from 2020.

>"they always have been (traceable)" >"Someone challenged me to trace his transaction to its source yesterday on Bawdy Anarchist's twitter space and I denied the ability to do so" wtf bro 😂 I listened to part of your conversation with Bawdy and enjoyed it. Agreed with almost everything you said there. I just think you claim too much on social media, or use terms in an unorthodox way which is why you get all these reply guys like myself. Looking forward to you and Luke talking on Seths pod next 👌

you can't stop lying can you? you are using heuristic analysis, which is NOT a deterministic relationship. your tool identfies the *likely true spend at a certain (undefined) probability and it does it no better than random chance (but automatically! 🙄) I suggest if you're actually interested in operating in good faith you prioritize telling the user the probability your heuristic analysis is accurate. ie, the odds an old ouput decoy WOULD be used in a ring etc

thank you, that (final paragraph) is excellent feedback and a very good idea

Thats a pretty large claim with not much to back it You can find cases where users were caught because they sent it to exchanges and the exchanges cooperated with law enforcement, or because they naively hopped to transparent chains like Bitcoin, etc, but not really anything that was directly attributed to Monero itself P2P transactions that dont leave Moneros blockchain give you very strong privacy guarantees

My monero tracing tool automatically identifies the sender of this transaction: c97d96fe61b2aee18a04fdb0975594c7e6d3334036e0e57e70666b9e5fe309b3 Try it here: https://supertestnet.github.io/examiner/ It seems to only be able to identify the sender in about 1 out of 15 transactions, but that's not nothing. I suspect tools with more data (like Ciphertrace's monero tracing tool, linked on my examinr github repo) do a better job of this, but it's silly to claim monero can't be traced in the face of two tools that at least sometimes trace it

You didn't trace anything. How does this identify the sender?...Did you narrow it down to a single sender? There are always 15 decoys and 1 true spend. You can't tell us which one is the true spend (unless this is your personal transaction then of course you know.) Thats how rings work. And mind this is a single transaction. As time goes on, you transact more, and it's chosen as decoys for other transactions, your probability for tracing rapidly falls off. original 16 = ~6% 1 hop 16^2 = ~0.4% 2 hops 16^3 = ~0.02%

> You didn't trace anything I did. I identified this pubkey as the sender: 23396ea4b0ab93e3417c3650d47b1c8414bb593d7fc9cdb1b27244e139645302 The rest are the decoys. My tool uses on-chain data and two heuristics to identify the true spend. The two heuristics are explained on my github:

GitHub

GitHub - supertestnet/examiner: Free and open source monero tracing tool

Free and open source monero tracing tool. Contribute to supertestnet/examiner development by creating an account on GitHub.

Someone told you monero can't be traced by they were wrong. Ciphertrace has a tool for tracing them and now I've released a free and open source alternative.

OK, so how do you know you've got the right sender? Like others are saying, if you can only trace the sender correctly in 1 of 15 transactions, you're not beating randomly guessing. You'll guess correctly 1 out of 15 tries, and you'll have no way to verify you were right. What's your methodology for verifying correctness on that 1 of 15? If you have that then you might have something, because if not then you've got no way to know which out of 15 was the correct guess.

Dude that isn't tracing... You could already do that with any Monero block explorer. Click any tx hash in a block and you can see a pubkey. See this is what I mean about you using terms in unorthodox ways. By the way is that your transaction? I see it was made yesterday

Guess I tagged the wrong account, lol!

now XMR can be a world reserve asset 🚀