If you could alter BTC with just nodes the state would have killed it in its infancy.
BIP-110 is DOA!
If you are angry at me for saying this, you are the type of person who gets mad at the weatherman when you don't like the weather.
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Replies (81)
Bitcoin is the nodes.
It's a misconception that hashrate controls the network. Hashrate is merely the cost of being randomly selected to add the next page to the ledger. It matters only in relation to competition with other miners who are also trying to be randomly selected for this privilege. The network adjusts the difficulty up or down to ensure that somebody is randomly selected every ten minutes on average regardless of hashrate. If you are randomly selected for this, you can only add a block to the chain that all the other nodes on the network (regardless of if they are mining or not) accept as valid.
So it is really this consensus mechanism among all the nodes that controls the network. The longest chain is not the valid chain if it is a chain of blocks that the other nodes determine to be invalid.
This is the real reason for the hostility towards BIP-110. It is node runners deciding they will no longer accept blocks that the Core developers consider to be valid. It's irrelevant how much hashpower you commit towards being randomly selected to add the next block if nodes on the network decide to discard your block.
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I never trust the weatherman to begin with.
Who decides what Bitcoin is if it isn't the nodes?
You can alter btc with just nodes, and btc could have been attacked when the computing resources for performing a 51% attack were trivial
Can't wait for Bitcoin consensus to change without any consensus in September. It's so suspenseful!
Just to play devil's advocate... weathermen are wrong about the weather like 90% of the time 😂
You sound like the type of person who does not know what 60% chance of rain even means.
Okay sure. 😜
You should go find the answer to that question. Use AI it will explain it to you.
On 8-8 you can admit to being wrong. I mean you won't have 51% of the nodes anyway, but even if you did it would not matter.
Running an off the shelf Bitcoin node won't force BIP-110 because Bitcoin runs on economic power, not raw node counts.
Without backing from major exchanges or miners, hobbyist nodes rejecting blocks won't stop the main chain, they will just disconnect themselves onto a worthless clone.
Note that is not a pro or anti position, just my assessment of reality.
In 2 weeks you can admit I was right.
That explains a lot. You get your "knowledge" from AI. I get it now.
I've always wondered if it was a psyop, as I tried to read both side of it.
However... most don't consider the history of Bitcoin as researched by Roger Ver (whom most maxis hate). Some consider him subtarted, others consider him genius, and he backs up his claims quite well.
This I'm not too sure on, though.
I've always been ok with being in the minority. The majority is often wrong about everything at first. I stand by what I know to be right. I will not go along to get along.
So funny that 99.99% of the influencers are taking the pro Spam/Core side of things. You can actively see all of the mining pools actively preparing with BIP-110 compliant blocks today...
X (formerly Twitter)
AuthintegX #BIP-110 (@authintegx) on X
Correction. 8 BIP-110 blocks were mined in quick succession of each other. 4 of those blocks were mined consecutively! This is not normal and it's ...
You honestly think btc could not have been attacked back in 2010? The only reason it didn't is it wasn't that known
He knows, and we know, that he's stumping for the corporate mining cartel. They've gone to great lengths to convince everybody that we depend on them, when in reality they depend on us. Likewise for the corporate interests taking control of Core development, for all their money and influence all they really gain control over is a GitHub repo unless they can also keep up their propaganda campaign to prevent more users from switching away from Core.
This guy listens to "environment and climate change canada" too much. Probably vaxxed too.
JACK YOURE GONNA RESPOND TO THIS COMMENT RIGHT?
Idk read the white paper? Check the part re proof of work.
I know a little bit about proof of work
Well that's why node count is not a viable consensus metric
Miners work for the nodes.
Get someone to explain to you how STUPID that claim is. 😂 holy shit I am literally accused of being a "shill for the oil companies" by left wing environmental loons. When people attack you vs your ideas they already know in their hearts they are wrong.
The OG influencers Robert, let it sink in. The people who were here before, during and after the block wars. The people who held right though Mt. Gox and Silk Road.
This has nothing to do with Ver but he is a grifter, he made the wrong call and simply can't live with admitting it.
But in this case the minority flatly loses. And I really don't care if it gets adopted. Adopted fine, not fine. See.
This one is just an easy call, no one not emotionally vested in it thinks otherwise. This is the think 95% of people who hold bitcoin and run nodes, do not even know it is a thing.
BTC folks on Nostr and X live in bubbles. Most Bitcoiners are just normal people who see BTC as money and an asset they hold.
It's clearly not being adopted as money. Looking at the fact that fees are virtually non-existent while roughly 70% of scarce block space is not even financial transactions, the only conclusion one can reach is that Bitcoin is objectively failing at it's original mission statement of a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.
Cry all you want, reality doesn't care.
What claim are you talking about?
Thats your shirt. You dropped it you retard.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. To clarify the distinction: the network doesn’t run code to detect a node’s "intent". An economic node is simply defined as a node whose owner acts as a final economic destination (processing actual commerce, merchant payments, custody, or exchange deposits) rather than just relaying traffic.
If non-mining nodes reject a block, it doesn't matter to miners unless those nodes represent real economic velocity. A miner's incentive isn't to satisfy the total count of listening nodes, but to produce blocks accepted by the entities holding actual buying power and paying for block space.
BIP-110's rules are technically backwards-compatible as a soft fork, but if major exchanges, custodians, and payment processors reject the tightening, miners who enforce BIP-110 risk producing blocks that the real economic backbone refuses to settle.
That’s why node count doesn't dictate consensus, economic consensus does. The fact I need to explain this to you means you don't understand BTC or consensus at all. I suggest learning about bit more about how it all works before personally attacking someone vs. their ideas in the future.
Enjoy the 8th, I will be in a boat fishing in the ocean and won't care what happens. The outcome is already known.
You're not a bitcoiner, regardless if you hold some UTXOs or not. A lot of people for inpatient with the rate of adoption, and instead of doing the hard work they started looking for shortcuts like simping for Wall Street adoption. If I have to fork Suitcoin™ to get the mission back on track then so be it. At least I have principles. The nihilism of the Coretards is disgusting and I no longer want to be associated with these losers. Suitcoin will likely have a higher fiat exchange rate for a long time and I'm fine with that too. I never got into Bitcoin to get rich. If that was my goal then I never would have spent so much of it over the years.
So in other words btc is fcked is what your trying to say?
Please show me one shred of evidence that I am connected to the "corporate mining cartel". Good luck with that.
See this is how we all know that your group knows you are going to fail. If you actually thought this was going to go your way, you'd ague ideas not make baseless accusations against people you don't even know.
You guys are pregaming your excuse for failure because you know it is coming. I can see it now
"Highjacking Bitcoin 2.0 by Luke Dashjr" with the sub title "Everyone We Don't Like is a Suitcoiner or a Pedo".
Tell you what you and I get a third party we both trust to hole our money. We both put up a grand. We give 60 days after your little forkaround, if rejected sill on 10-8 I get the money if adopted you get it.
Now are you just talking shit or do you want to put skin in the game?
I am sure @Guy Swann would hold onto it for us and I know we can trust him. Or someone else, as long as they are someone we both can trust. Let's go or just fork off.
Okay so you don't, it is coverage in an area not exactly how likely it is that it will rain where you specifically are.
I wouldnt trust guy swan. Hel start posting it on pubkey.
A lot of them pay lip service to the concept of freedom money when they want to feel an unearned sense of moral superiority, but their actions expose their true motives better than any duplicitous bullshit they say.
They no longer care one iota about peer-to-peer electronic cash. All they want, more than anything in the world, is to look fiat rich on paper, and they will accept any compromise that they believe serves that end.
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Sounds like you are being a little bitch to me, then WHO do you trust. You are implying Guy is the problem when I said,
Or someone else, as long as they are someone we both can trust.
And he'll post it, so the F what?
That would actually increase security as his damage to his brand if he didn't pay out to the winner would be very costly.
Just admit you won't take the bet. Just be honest here. You do not have enough confidence in your little revolution to put up a grand. Right?
LMAO I was publicly in this space again before you knew the word Bitcoin. I don't hold some UTXOs I was accepting it as payments in 2012, not just buying it.
I spent a whole coin on a shotgun when it was at 650 a coin. Hows that for adoption?
You people seem to think if your 110 passes that will speed adoption and in the same breath you say, "it was already that way in 2023". Well why didn't we have adoption then?
Fees are at all time lows, spam is not a fee problem and people do not fail to spend BTC based on fees. The main impediment is tax policy which I am sure you also do not understand.
And the entire "yOu aRe NoT a ReAL BiTcOiNEr" meme is so old and tired I also remember that from a time before you knew what BTC was. I take BTC in my business, to the tune of about 12K usd a year on average. I run my own nodes, I mine. WTF makes me "not a real Bitcoiner" but some anon pleb that showed up 3 years ago is?
GTFOOH! You're still wet behind the ears son.
I guess you are saying you can't be a real bitcoiner unless you support 110? Sitting around staring at a do nothing node with a few hundred bucks on it?
Okay again I want to talk to you a month from now and see what you say then. If you'd been around more than a minute you'd know we have pretty much already seen this movie before.
Oh and hey show me on this chart where fees are causing a problem due to spam in the network. Thanks....
BitInfoCharts
Bitcoin Avg. Transaction Fee Chart
Bitcoin Average transaction fee, USD Chart
I spent my first Bitcoin on the Silk Road. I've been around just as long. You're very angry. I've noticed that about the anti-bip-110 crowd. You guys oscillate between feigning concern for the folks on the other side "you'll end up on your own fork," and outrageous ranting "REEEEEEEE!" It smacks of fear honestly.
Sorry for being a little bitch. Il admit I am pushing some buttons on a topic I havent researched and know nothing about. but I do like how you started explaining your thought process instead of just outsourcing it to some Ai corporation, And telling us to go figure it out. Yeah sure we should but you also gotta explain yourself which you now did. So cheers.
We are angry? Really? We are the one insulting people only for their opinions? Not arguing the facts? Us right?
Not to mention I am not anti anything, I just said it won't happen and explained why and you had a melt down.
I also doubt your time in the game claim. No reason I should not. What I say can all be verified, you not so much.
Additionally all the long term coiners, okay wait to be accurate MOST the vast majority that didn't flame out in the block wars have the same position I do. We don't even hate the idea here, but we know 110 is more than claimed and we are simply saying, you can't get it done this way.
For that you people call us pedos, suitcoiners, say we are not real bitcoiners but you never explain how your side can get this done the way you are doing it.
Sorry man you are projecting. I say "you are not a real bitcoiner" but since I am not retarded I know no one gets to say who is and who isn't a bitcoiner. You are or you are not. The more you put in the more you are honestly because money is real and risk is real. If you hold 100 sats bro you too are a Bitcoiner but that doesn't make you right.
Again I don't care if you win or lose, that is why you hate me. Sad.
There are realities here and you guys have all followed Luke like some savior. Reminds me of people who supported George McGovern and Walter Mondale and thought they had a chance.
See what happens if you listen instead of calling people pedos and shit? I am telling you this can't work and everyone with a deep long term technical understanding of this, knows it. I think many on your side do as well, hence the anger and acting out.
As for being told to go ask AI (I guess that is what this means, ""nstead of just outsourcing it to some Ai corporation" ) don't think I am not tempted. It gets exhusting explaining it over and over.
Honestly discussing it with AI ain't a bad idea, ask a good LLM to explain it to you. Sure those models are biased in medicine and climate shit but pretty neutral on BTC.
Just ask, explain to me why it likely will not happen, what it would take for it to happen and how it might happen even if it is not likely.
You may keep your opinion but at least it will be fully informed and you will know more than 98% of the people shouting down anyone who says what they do not want to hear.
You'll notice almost no one that was here for the Block Wars expects this to get done. There is a reason, it is the "same but different". Different goals but same mechanism required. The 110ers will say but those were hard forks, true but not how it started.
They forked around, they found out. After the BCH split I waited for the initial bump and told my followers now sell all your BCH and put it al in BTC. Some did some did not.
Roger Ver though a tantrum and liquaded a huge portion of his wealth. He publicly announced he would sell all his BTC to drive the price down and the BCH price down. If he had done nothing he'd be one of the richest men on the planet today but he forked. around and found out.
Oh and all of us that stuck with BTC during that time, we were totally open to increasing block size, just not how they were trying to do, as I said the same but different all over again.
All the Jaws movies were different but the shark dies at the end of them. It is kind of like that.
Just keep telling yourself that bud
No that is what 110ers are saying. I am saying we have watched "bitcoin die" about 500 times over 15 years and we no longer worry about such claims. Have you ever seen this?
Again the 110ers are the ones saying BTC dies if 110 fails. I don't care if it is adopted or not, I am just telling you the math for it does not math here.
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I dont know what a LLM is never mind a good LLM. Im not downloading a centralized app on my phone like grok or chat gpt. Im not getting a neurolink. Just raw organic peer to peer thoughts. Thats worth a lot too you know.
If I can run a open source decentralized model on my computer then im kinda interested but dont need that shit for now. Prob forever.
The debate here is not about P2P cash which BTC does just fine when you want it to. It does other things as well, as any good money would.
The only debate I am having with you is feasibility of success of your movement and I am saying it ain't going to happen.
Note that not one time in all these exchanges have you ONCE explained how your side can win this, not ONE TIME. Not one word has been used to refute the facts I presented.
Why is that?
I'd guess because you don't have any, you just have faith and faith is fragile in the world of reality. Tell me how exactly 110 will speed adoption as BTC as money? Specifically what it will do.
Answer this if it is just going back in time a few years, why didn't we get adoption then?
How exactly does the math and power work for your side to win a fight that I am just observing and not even in?
Do you even understand I am just making a prediction here, not advocating for anything?
Got me gud. 🤝
That's a bummer if I am wrong. Could be. Just hoping for the best. Get back to me in a few weeks.
What do you you tell yourself to feel hope for the future in this dark world? This place blows ass.
Yeah the world is not a nice place, Bitcoin is good, but that doesn't change the fact that you are being sold a bill of goods with that knots business...
Bro you don't have to download anything to use a LLM (large language model) many you don't even have to register to use.
You can literally run a search and switch to AI mode and ask questions and get answers. If that scares you sorry I am out here.
Core on the other hand. Top notch.
I meant to say you are right. I am wrong and stupid. All this time alone out in the desert has me confused. Clearly. Thanks for enlightening me.
This is a good statement man. Don’t real miners use nodes to get the rules?
I’m only asking you because you have showed your mining setup so I know that you are a miner.
Am I wrong in my thinking?
The miners need to run a node and get the network rules? So let’s suppose the miners dont work for the nodes. They definitely need the node to tell them the rules.
I run a node with datum. I run knots because I am hopeful for the future. I know im an idiot. No need to remind me.
SHHHH, that statement made me smile man. Datum with knots, on start 9 server, and solar?????
I’ve only known the Governments to make their own money.
Your setup sounds like you are printing your own money and learning a ton in the process. Hats off to you sir!!!
#bitcoin
I dunno whats happening, but I think it could ultimately lead to a chain split and a hard fork.
If 110ers went there own way are you saying its doomed to fail from day 1?
Like I side I dont even know what it is and you mentioned zero names.
Run a search? You mean use Google Ai. Its dumber then a bag of rocks.
I’m torn on this. I understand what they mean, but if a non “economic node” was the only one with a copy of the blockchain then it is valuable.
If a non economic node never had a single Satoshi ran through it, it doesn’t make it less valuable than a node that had every last satoshi sent through it.
Both matter. If only economic nodes mattered then Bitcoin is ruled by Coinbase. Bitcoin's network consists of all nodes. If Coinbase's node fails Bitcoin will continue working and its function will be replaced by another exchange.
I hear that. After I heard that a node that has sent 1 600 satoshi ordinal was considered an economic node I started to look at “economic” differently.
Fck those clankers.
Solid advice from gigi.
a bag of rocks is the new sillicon chips
“Well that’s why.” That’s your explanation? Wow! Such a compelling argument.
Some people are willfully ignorant and that I can't fix or waste my time on.
I am done bothering with you.
Reality doesn't care what you do or think.
Good... get the fuck away you turded tard..
This guy fucks...
Married for 30 years and still happy so absolutely. Sorry you are an incel.
Why are you cyber stalking me then? Why do you fuck off away from me elsewhere? Bro I am strait find someone else to crush on.
He tried to ask you a question, and he understandably found your arrogance offensive.
You too why have you not fucked off elsewhere yet?
I've been watching you and @Hofer99 pop up in my notification feed the past 24 hours so I decided to poke. You're easy to antagonize.
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Are you done or do I have to answer your questions? You could've answered my questions instead of turning this into a pissing match.
