Replies (72)
π
NIP-13 not BIP-13 lol
Awesome feature
"safe" is the wrong word tho, that's the language censors use. maybe "spam-free" would be better. Or "1 - enough to ensure posts have *some* low level of quality, but low enough to allow for discoverability"
The first ever pow pr to the nips repo had this idea. it was rejected for being too complex but imo could be simplified and reopened
"Safe" is an ok word in this case, since your point is exactly what this feature is trying to accomplish. It's web of trust, so that qualifier is user-defined. But yeah, good instinct for sure.
Hoping to add PoW eventually too. That's an interesting idea
Maybe, but I think a fixed number is better because it's simpler. Anyway, you're in control of your followers and wot score threshold, so you can just scale it up manually every 1000 follows or so
OMG! πππβ‘β‘β‘
View quoted note βIs that score calculated by an algorithm that we can see somewhere? I feel like the βdegree of separationβ is more simple but maybe itβs not robust enough?
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Disagree and I'll explain why:
Safe implies notes outside the wot are dangerous, when really they're just spam.
Ideally all the "dangerous" notes (in the sense of challenging your current paradigm, or empowering you to resist authoritarian control) would be in your wot.
Censors would like you to think that "dangerous" means it may hurt someone's feelings, and that may be somewhat true, but it will be used as an excuse to also censor things "dangerous" in the good sense.
Just my 2 sats, words matter to me a lot, others may disagree l.
No, it's very simple, literally just "how many people you follow also follow that person". I'll change the wording to make it less ambiguous.
This looks nice. I'm missing global these days!
One of the things that makes WoT so challenging is that there is no end to the tweaks that could be implemented; but what may be great for one group of users may not work at all for another. In the short run, simple algos like this one can be very powerful and have wide appeal, so Iβm glad to see this WoT implementation in coracle! But I imagine it could be tempting for a dev to try to add too many improvements. Where to draw the line is a judgement call. In the long run, we want our WoT to help us decide which filtering algorithms to use, including how to tweak them and in what context. All decisions, the simple ones and the complex, the little ones and the big ones, ultimately will be farmed out to your WoT (at your discretion, of course). How to build this? Not an easy problem!
Most importantly (to me), the fact that YOUR WoT is anchored to YOU (itβs clearly YOUR WoT, not βtheβ WoT) is of tremendous importance. We want the user to get used to the fact that ultimately, the heavy lifting for all data curation - whether itβs for βsafetyβ or otherwise - must be handled by your WoT, not by the state or The Coracle Corporation or whomever.
Words matter to me as well, I would normally be arguing your position as well. For example, I hate the term "hate speech". I'm just using safe idiomatically here to mean "secure from spam/porn/challenging viewpoints", in a context where "safe" normally means "Trust and Safety" which is equally dystopian.
Our DBA is actually King Coracle, actually
ackkckcktually π€¦ββοΈ
First real solution for Global?
View quoted note βHow are you labeling the score? Is it a Nostr event as well?
@hodlbod just implemented a user configurable WoT for global π
View quoted note β
Oh!! So the number is how many of your followers follow them. Got it! I thought it was some calculation
If it's a Nostr event, other clients could implement this πππ
Sweet! I can't find this in my content settings in coracle.social though, did you deploy this yet?
I get what you're saying, however it's more than spam though. It's unwanted speech, though that's not the correct word in these examples. Safe is a better description here.
NIP-32 could work for this.
Not yet, it's in the next release
have you not used iris.to?
works fine on amethyst and better than this type of filtering
this filters more than spam and is not optimal
timid is a more accurate word
Ok, so maybe I oversold this, apparently
@Sirius has had this in Iris since forever. Nevertheless, it feels like a big improvement to Coracle.
View quoted note βsafe is the woke misused word
Maybe I should bump my WoT threshold to 7 to avoid reply guys π€
its not unwanted speech as this hides wanted speech, its a trust based filter
safer would be a better word, you are trusting what your followers follow is ok
anyway distributed moderation is a better system from my view already using this wot on iris.to a lot
traditional moderation is already proven, dont reinvent the wheel, but you can improve it, distributed moderation works better than centralized moderation, hardly any nostr app has touched the idea
haha
unwanted speech? so anything outside of your wot is "unwanted" idk about that. maybe "untrusted"?
Maybe it could make sense to scale the default based on the number of follows a user has? Seems like there is some trade-off there
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"trusted" ? "approved" ?
If we're going to be pedantic about what this score means, it's really just "popularity" heh.
Excellent
People are so used to hearing these terms used in a dystopian way it's hard to even talk about Nostr's paradigm. "Safe" is a subjective adjective, "unwanted" is a passive verb. The agent isn't specified, and around here it's not who it usually is.
How big will the filter be when you follow thousands of people?
Yes.
I don't use global now. I haven't for at least 6 montha or more it's a shit show. Implementing a WoT would allow people that want to turn this feature on be able to turn it on and use global once again.
Don't like it because you want a full blown fire hose of everything in global? Then don't turn it on.
This allows you to get what you want and allows me to get what I want. Win/win.
I guess it's somewhat hard to realize that not everyone wants to control you and some are legitimately trying to give control back to you.
Call it Tribes.
Let people select interests and then followers.
It's more a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend. And so forth. A network of friends.
Right, but I can't think of a better term than popularity to sum it up. adjacency? heh
I think
@hodlbod implied recursion isn't even in play here so it's nothing beyond friend-of-a-friend?
Right, but I don't think I would call it popularity, since that's independent of your standpoint. It's maybe closer to popularity within friend group, but a better word might be "alignment"
Thats nice!
I mean every word so far has been an imperfect descriptor, I wouldn't throw out "popularity" just because it's an imperfect match. "alignment" is probably closer to correct, but it's not very clear to a new user imho.
An imperfect understanding of the word "popular" will still lead someone to basically correctly understand the WoT score. "apparent popularity" actually is a near perfect match imho, but it's a bit wordy.
"in groupiness" was my first thought after popularity, but I think it's also a bit unclear to your average new user, and it sounds goofy lol
Happy to help you bikeshed the term for the rest of the day instead of doing more important things π π
Let's go with in-groupiness haha
Last comment on this I swear! What about just calling it a "Score" or "WoT Score" and if the user cares enough to investigate what that is, give them a precise description in a tooltip or something. Otherwise, all the user REALLY needs to know is it's some kind of score, higher is better.
That is in fact exactly what I'm doing lol
π
π glad thatβs settled
Will this be live soon?
This week or next, it goes along with a big re-write of Coracle's routing system, which is liable to break stuff
Makes sense. Iβm guessing this is really a logarithmic effect too. Adjustments by more than 1-2 follows is likely more a question of how strict you want global than it is dependent on your follow count
Logarithms reflect reality way better than linear curves, I wish they were more intuitive to people
Hmmm.
x10 photons -> x2 brightness
x10 amplitude -> x2 loudness
x10 following -> x2 WoT threshold
Perfectly natural π
inverse square law
Coracle keeps booting me off relays. I add a bunch, a day later it reverts to 2 or 3. Any reason? Am I doing something wrong? Can't confirm any trigger as of yet (IE if it's after logout, etc).
long live the King! π€π»
Care to share what you mean?
you have a list of people whose reports filter out spam etc, currently that list must be your follow list but that will change to a separate list one day
you need quite a few people in the list, many hands make light work, amethyst also has a word filter
Ah yes of course π
Oh very cool. I am not on Android so I havenβt been able to try it yet. That sounds great. I appreciate the info.
