Replies (107)
Agnosticism seems like the most rational and humble perspective
Can I play in this thread too? 🤣
Doubt requires logic and rationality to be meaningful. You’re making truth claims while saying you offer no proof. Where do your standards come from? Doubt isn’t neutral, it borrows the certainty it denies. Christianity provides the foundation that makes your doubt even possible. 🤙
Indeed.
The cosmic questions are unknowable
This note could start a huge thread of clueless people carrying a god proxy.
On it
Y'all a bunch of dirty centrist fence sitters!
Pascal's wager cannot be abstained. The Bible is not pure truth, but Christianity suits me best. I like the theory of dmt and mushrooms playing a huge series of roles in the Bible. In the end, Aurelius said it best.
We have arrived.
"I don't know" seems like a fair outlook.
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Choose your weapon
I just enjoy the mystery of it all.
Doubt is the product. Hill & Knowlton helped major industries shift the narrative via doubt. Be careful what paradigms you wish for.
It’s the only honest way
I wish more Christians were logical enough to accept this. I personally don't even think it's important whether or not Jesus existed. But my faith is just that, mine. The more modern Christians embrace their religion as a personal relationship with "Christ", the better off we will all be, and this would kill the hypocrisy everyone accuses the church of.
The King James Version was a Government sponsored project. [Sips tea]
I’m a what now
Well I do know because it says it right here in this cool new hip religion
Doubt is the shifting sand of uncertainty, which can lead to being paralysed.
Faith in Jesus is a sure foundation which can lead to a stability of confidence.
Question everything
This one is cool because I combined all the religions and now everyone can get along
🤯
Faith is trust, and trust is established through a reasoned assessment and assurance that the object of that faith is trustworthy. Faith is neither blind nor superstitious no wishful thinking nor *only* personal.
Reducing faith to merely a personal relationship with Christ that has no real weight of objective truth behind it and no real requirements on the world is antithetical to the Biblical definition of faith and is one of the biggest reasons the West is on the suicidal path it has taken.
Reducing the worlds problems to "y'all mfers need Jesus" negates that the crusades were done in the name of Christ. Jesus was an individual savior, nothing you can do will save your nation or family.
Sire I believe all those miracles happened, but there is 0 way to say they objectively happened, so they cannot, by definition, be objective truth. Your "requirements" are works based salvation... Papist go home lol
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Rev. William Wright 1888
Glad you didn't take my joke personally!
I don't think the events of the bible happening matter. For more on this, I'd have to point you to jordan petersons work, Brett Weinstein talks a bit about it too, but there ie evolutionary benefits to acting as if the bible is true even if it's not. Granted, I DO think it's objectively true, (the gospel anyways) but I don't think that's actually important. It takes away from actual testimony to argue with someone that individual miracles happened. There is no objective evidence, pictures, measurements, etc. I feel like it's better to actually walk away from those conversations than engage and argue them, it's evidence that that person is prideful and thinks the world is 100% material and hasn't had a spiritual event to bring them closer to the Lord. These not happening don't make the bible untrustworthy. For example, genesis isn't describing literal creation, but is allegorical. Doesn't make it less important or applicable or trustworthy.
Logically there is proof this world is created and therefore created by somone.
Both are equally wrong but both are equally right.
That goes for any religion including the religions that masquerade as secular entities.
View quoted note →What if a just God revealed himself to humanity and requires repentance? Who lives a good life? We all fall short of His glory.
Agnosticism is still an escape hatch for our pride.
Faith is a slippery slope.
Give me the escape hatch every time, at least it’s honest
He is merciful. The gap between those trying and the rest is massive.
The quote from Marcus Aurelius is therefore deceiving my brother!
Meh. If there is to be judgement, it isn't pass/fail on the question of repentance timed properly in a death bed.
Sorry man, this is what is canon: either perfect timing of repentance etc or straight to the lake of fire
Too much fuckery of men over hundreds of decades for me to accept the book as pure truth.
We all cherry pick as we're all sinners.
I'm assured In my relationship with God that I'm good with my position.
How are you assured?
The whole point of agnosticism is you cannot possibly know what that facts are of the origin of earth and man.
I am blessed, and I feel at peace.
I don't know how it gets better than that.
The consequences of being a nonbeliever and being wrong are MUCH greater than the consequences of believing and being wrong. Logically you can’t be 100% certain. So then logically it would make more sense to believe.
So should i go through the motions if I don't believe? Wouldn't God see through this?
Definitely would. I think people always struggle with faith, no matter who you are. All I can tell you is that I am going through the motions myself and it’s only made me better. And I have more belief than I did before I started.
Believe what? It’s not clear what is at stake.
Perhaps you would develop faith.
I was raised going to church and stopped going after I moved out of my parents. I am trying to read the bible for the first time now.
start with the scientific analysis of the shroud of turin or the tilma or the eucharistic miracles or the incorruptable bodies of certain saints. Or, the archaeological evidence in support of the biblical narratives. or the cosmological explanation of the star of bethlehem.
Pascal wants his wager back.
I’m in a similar situation but we didn’t actually go when I was young. So far the faith has been more like developing a muscle over time rather than a 100% on, 100% off type thing. Just my experience.
'I know that I know nothing'
Some weird bearded Greek
How?
It’s not, the word salads are many defending fairy tales
The Agnostic outlook is the only honest outlook
I am speaking here from a biblical world view. Agnostics are still in rebellion to God - who revealed Himself in Jesus Christ to us.
Cool story bro
Yes! The aliens that 3d printed the earth and everything on it were super clever!!!
We are much longer dead than alive, might as well checking out where the journey may take us.
This thread did not disappoint lmao thank you!
Kinda...sorta...in a way...not really though.
KJV was based primarily on Tyndale's work.
Tyndale was executed as a heretic decades before James even became king.
Literally what I'm working on, but I'm only around 200 pages. If it winds up being double that many pages, I'll be surprised.
There is a way to say they happened objectively: direct perception. Unfortunately most of us are still a long ways away from the ability to make that perception. It’s inspiring enough having the perceptions I am already having on the path.
PS True faith is that perception only partially conscious.
I kinda feel like worshipping the wrong god would be more offensive to God than just living a decent life and not being a bigot.
God is probably more offended by hate from fake Christians towards the rest of humanity than anything else.
Created?
Someone?
How?
I don't see any evidence of simulation theory.
The entire 3D universe sits on the back of a cosmic 4D turtle which swims through the void endlessly.
The cosmic turtle has always existed and will always exist.
It doesn't care about us, we are less significant to it, then the bacteria on our skin is to us.
Totally a cool story bro. I'll dedicate my life to unproven claims for unknowable outcomes. I'm sure it has nothing to do with control or money. Trust, don't verify is the way
You are starting a new religion? lol
"This one is cool because I combined all the religions and now everyone can get along"
"Literally what I'm working on, but I'm only around 200 pages. If it winds up being double that many pages, I'll be surprised."
Where did you get "starting a new religion" from?
While I'm not exactly combining all the religions, what I am doing is showing that they all occupy common ground. I don't have to combine them. They're already combined in that way.
Every religion is pointing at the same truths using in-group lingo but most people never go study all of these different traditions and of those who do, most of them fail to see the common ground shared by the various traditions. If anything, I'm looking to show how each religion offers a distorted view of the same cosmic truths while backing it all up with modern science.
Jung has pretty much shown this.
Religion resides within the psyche.
The ego is the stable in which the Christ child is born.
Yeah, Jung figured out a lot of good stuff including one of the most core teachings: the Hieros Gamos or Alchemical union of opposites. He covered it in The Mysterium Coniunctionis. Every tradition has this concept whether it's God/Holy Spirit/Christ, Osiris/Isis/Horus, Chi/Rho/Phi, or, as is often the case, the third spot is left blank as it is in the cases of Fu Xi and Nu Gua, Damballa and Ayida Weddo, Yin and Yang, Alpha and Omega and many others. I call it "the Perennial Holy Trinity": the Divine Feminine unites with the Divine Masculine within a person. This is essentially a self-birthing of the Divine Child or enlightened being.
He also figured out that archetypes are important and that we each use one another as mirrors. Everyone is a guide, but people tend to be mixed bags of attractive guidance and repellant guidance.
All in a days work
Well I made a joke about making a new religion with all the religions combined. So when you said you were doing the same, I asked for clarification.
All religions are not pointing at the same truths. This is massive cope that many religious people struggle with because they don’t want to accept that people they love will burn in hell for eternity for believing in a different god.
Jung did not prove that religion resides in the psyche. All he proved was that there is a collective unconscious tendency toward certain experiences that are seemingly spiritual. Everything beyond that is just his speculating. An alternative viewpoint is that religions killed off people who don’t have this inclination toward a “higher power.” The dark side of religion and its violent history is one that many people ignore.
Humans are very similar to each other in many ways. When we get sick, we often have the same symptoms: runny nose, fever, coughing, sore throat. Religious experience is similar. It’s not a big deal if a lot of humans hallucinate in similar ways.
He just proved a collective unconscious? That’s it?!!!!
Sure.
A tendency.. Seemingly. Prove isn’t even the best word here. His theories are not well accepted.
For example, he talked about a patient he had that dreamt about a beetle. When his patient was telling him the dream, a beetle started tapping on his window. He used experiences like this to claim that we are all connected in some way. And maybe that’s true but this isn’t indisputable proof. Jung practiced as a therapist for over 50 years. Do you understand how many patients he had to have seen in that time span? Most likely thousands. It’s not a stretch to say that this beetle story was just a coincidence. It’s certainly a stretch to claim that this coincidence is somehow special when the rest of his work with his patients were very ordinary. In order to prove something, you have to show a consistent cause and effect relationship. Do insects tap on your window whenever you dream about them? No they don’t.
A simpler example of these “meaningful coincidences” is when you dream about someone and find out that person also dreamt about you. It’s happened to me several times where I’ll text this person and say I dreamt about you. They’ve responded saying they also dreamt about me. Wow crazy must be proof of something right? Maybe not. How many times have you dreamt of someone who didn’t also dream about you or reach out to you? All the damn time. You just don’t notice. It’s a bias and it’s difficult for people to acknowledge that. Everyone thinks they’re special and immune to these biases but no one actually is. Not even Jung.
This thread are going longer
Christian god will send you for the flames same as another god follower
The old canon even worst when their god kill a lot of innocent ppl just because one guy committed a mistake.
This take was awful, dig deeper.
Right, and I chose to reply to the post that didn't say anything about making a new religion therefore making a new religion wasn't a part of our conversation. It was a part of the conversation you had prior to my choice to jump in, so it's not relevant to our portion of the conversation.
All religions are pointing at the same truths. Egotistical dogmatists, like yourself, who are too prideful and lazy to go study all of the traditions and/or are too unloving to actually abide the Golden Rule prefer to state that all religions are not pointing at the same truths as a coping mechanism. It's much easier to just say things from a position of willful ignorance than it is to go do your due diligence. You're too ignorant for this conversation.
You don't understand the Hieros Gamos.
You don't understand how that is the same thing as the Mysterium Coniunctionis, Yin and Yang, Damballa and Ayida Weddo, Fu Xi and Nu Gua, Osiris and Isis, Prince Charming and Cinderella, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, Shive and Shakti, Kether and Malkuth/Shekinah, Chi and Rho, Alpha and Omega, Aleph and Teth, Alif and Ba, Ka and Ba.
You are wrong. Persist in your ignorance if you must.
That's it, right there. That last snarky sentence is why you will reincarnate and suffer through more lives before you reach what you would understand to be "heaven".
By choosing to regard your fellow humans as though they have nothing of substance to offer, you are walling yourself off from truths. You are the rich man who will not enter the city because you won't take the saddlebags off your camel so it can fit through the narrow opening known as the eye of the needle. You are the professor full of your own speculations and assumptions who will be unable to learn Zen because you cannot empty your cup.
When you figure out the Golden Rule doesn't mean trashing every other tradition, you'll be on the right path. When you figure out that the Golden Rule means learning every tradition with a receptive mind that is also guarded by robust discernment, you'll be ready to start walking that path. Until then, you are a part of the problem that my work will cure on a long enough time line.
Dogmatists like you will dwindle in numbers until you are no bigger than the KKK is today.
You should consider incorporating the Hermetic principles which are exoterically coded into many of the mainstream religious texts, particularly the new testament.
Agreed. I have copies of the Corpus Hermeticum, the Kybalion, and the Hermetica.
Also, there's a very good chance that my research includes the core that ties Egypt to both chemistry and alchemy. I am pretty sure I've figured out the science and legitimate origin of the baptism ritual. I shared this research on Once Bitten episode 562. TLDR the Egyptians were capable of synthesizing various chemicals using their buildings, including hydrochloric and sulfuric acids which are what would be necessary to convert basalt into magnesium sulfate used in sensory deprivation. Sarcophagi were sensory deprivation tanks. Sensory deprivation induces theta neural oscillations which are key to multiple altered states of consciousness including kundalini awakenings up to and including full enlightenment.
Once Bitten! A Bitcoin Podcast. • Stolen Science Series Part 7 - Decoding The Science Of Ancient Initiations. Red Tail Hawk #562 • Listen on Fountain
Where are you planning to publish your religious synthesis work? I'd be interested in reading it.
I have done a lot of work but I have a lot of work left to do as well.
Right now, I'm rewriting/revising/editing through the first 40-50 pages of my presentation notes which are about 160-170 pages in length as of right now. About 75% of that is a fresh rewrite, although I'm going to have to revise and edit that too eventually.
I also have a head start on the book. So far it's mostly backstory and personal context which is necessary to understand how I got to this point. I need to streamline chapter 5 as it contains a lot of redundancy. I probably ought to revise and edit the first 4 chapters too.
I'm getting close to the point where I'm running out of major topics to cover but I have at least one or two more that, for sure, warrant coverage before I call it a finished work ready to be submitted to a publishing house for review.
That said, my hope is to have this published before the end of 2026. As a first time author, however, I have no idea how long I should expect the publishing process to take. I'm kind of thinking that I could have my manuscript finished by early spring which leaves half a year for professional editing, printing, etc. to happen.
Translation:
I don’t like your analysis so I’m just gonna tell you that you’re wrong 😂
Cope harder bro
You can also just answer the harmless clarifying question without being an asshole and creating a pointless argument for no reason.
I’m not interested in wasting my time studying countless unprovable and unverifiable myths that defy logic and laws of nature. Also, there are clear “truths” that contradict each other in the most common religions. Like the fact that Muslims believe god having a son is a ticket straight to hell and Christians believing that you can’t enter heaven without affirming that Jesus is a deity. Let’s not forget that countless religions were polytheistic and some religions don’t even believe in a heaven/hell but instead believe in reincarnation. You’re full of shit and just trying to find ways to cope with the fact that people you love and care about will go to hell for not believing in your religion.
Pray harder until your brain hallucinates some spiritual and subjective experience that comforts your fears of death and the unknown.
I literally read it and it drained the life out of me due to the sheer scale of ignorance. Come back when you stop reading Google analyses and ChatGPT on topics way above your current epistemology.
The golden rule is shit and retarded. “Treat others the way you want to be treated.” Pretty dumb. A hormonal teenage girl can dismantle the golden rule by just talking to you about love languages 🤣
Some like receiving gifts. Others like words of affirmation. If you follow the golden rule, then you’ll give gifts to people who want verbal reassurance simply because you like receiving gifts. Not a great recipe for satisfying relationships.
Consider a better rule like the silver rule. Be the type of person you’d like to associate with. A more practical rule to follow that leads to more harmony and satisfying relationships. But religion says…. Yea yea enjoy your altered and corrupted thousand year old books
Translation:
I can’t argue my point so I’m going to make fun of you because religion is truth and I was brainwashed to believe it my whole life.
Cool bro
Translation:
I can’t prove my point so I’m going to act superior
Genuinely & truthfully, I honestly couldn’t give a flying fuck what you think or what you’re talking about, you win the argument mahdood, feel free to reply again if you want the last word.
Well they all have a version of the Golden Rule and for good reason.
You have a lot of assumptions baked into your perspective which is ultimately rooted in willful ignorance.
You don’t know my past nor do you know what I have focused upon in my studies.
Because you think you know me, you won’t actually know me.
Likewise, because you think you know what all of these religions are about, you will not know what they are about.
Have fun suffering through your next life. You won’t be as wealthy in the next one.
Actually I was agnostic from about 20 years old until I was nearly 34.
Prior to 20, yes, I was immersed in one religious tradition but I stepped away from it in college.
From 34-38 I was still agnostic but I leaned deist. Now I am a perennialist.
You don’t know my past either but I don’t claim to know yours or claim to know all the religions. You don’t know all the religions either. You can spend your entire life studying all these religions and you’ll run out of time before you learn them all.
But what’s the point of all that? You’re chasing your own tail. Where is the evidence that any of these religions are anything but manmade? There is none. If there is show me. If there isn’t, then I have no reason to waste my time studying.
And what did you believe before 20?
Right, you’re prejudiced, ignorant, and lazy. You also have made up your mind. You’re a waste of time.
That’s a complicated question.
A simpler question would be “What religious tradition were you raised with?”
Roman Catholic
Big words. I bet those innocent non believers that were slaughtered by proponents of your beliefs were also lazy and ignorant too.
What assumptions are baked into this?
Figured. It is brainwashing. It’s likely that you’re getting older. Seeing people around you die and being faced with your own mortality is a scary experience. Now you’re helplessly looking for answers and coming up with the most convoluted and illogical ones possible. Good luck to you.
Completely wrong take. Have fun with all your assumptions.
That non believers were murdered for not accepting the latest trendy religion
Sounds like something a brainwashed person would say 😂
