I ran a temporary mint, to see what it was like.
the upsides: cool tech, cool apps, can send offline, easy nwc.
the downsides: this is a 💯 rug factory. why even use someone elses mint? why would someone use yours?
thoughts? did lightning seem like this too in the early days?
Replies (22)
Why use: Easier UX, more privacy
Why run: more routing fees as you gain popularity
It’s going to be reputation based, can’t see much of a way around it.
Although I think they are trying to wrap the mint data into the individual nut so that Munro control of that nut is transferred with/within the nut.
I had a friend’s mint do down and he rugged me for 22 sats. Then he bought me breakfast so I’m way in the positive. 😂
There are parts of e-cash that I like. Like you, I think it's cool tech. Privacy is a neat feature as well.
Beyond that, I don't really think it solves any problems. Because, again, as you pointed out, it's a rug factory. You have to rely on another custodian. And if most people are using lightning custodially, then they're relying on another layer of custodians to not rug them.
I'm not sure exactly how it would happen, but it would be neat to see cashu as a pure layer 2 and not as a layer 3 sitting on top of lightning.
I saw "temporary mint" and immediately thought "rug pull".
Your thoughts are precisely why I am against popularity rankings for mints. Popularity contests can be gamed and will get gamed most by those who have most to profit from being on top.
I see mints as ways to manage community funds. Uncle Jim model. My kids will want e-cash cause UTXOs will be too expensive for them early on. Also it's great for privacy.
Munro -> “the mint in”
Every bank is just an ecash mint.
Something I've noticed running wallets for people with LNBits is that it's a rug factory AND I can see how they spend their sats. I am deeply suspicious of all custodial wallets at this point, even though I do have some degree of trust. Mints at least have less visibility into transactions.
But how do you keep it to the community / private group that you run the mint for?
That's what I don't grasp yet. I want to run it as a Community Bank.
But if I ask for authentication, I'm a privacy honey pot etc...
How does this compare to running Alby Hub?
it only took you a few minutes to figure it out. ecash is a scam. none of the incentives make any sense whatsoever and it's a way to sneak inflation into the bitcoin ecosystem.
thats the thing, it requires you to already have a lightning node.. after which it's very easy to install this in addition.
Lightning fails safe. What else do you need?
So let's say:
- I set up a group chat for my normie friends (Uncle Jimming a relay+blossom server for them).
- I run a lightning node (Alby Hub style)
- I run a #cashu mint on top of it
How do I now:
1. only let that private group use the mint?
2. maximize privacy?
Is there some kind of "Proof Of Group Member" that they can share?
Is there a way for me to run the mint in "Blind Mode" or something (and prove it to them!)?
downsides: you go to jail?
id be interested to know this too
wen amethyst bucks? 🚨🎉
@Pip the WoT guy I need that "Proof Of Group Member" we talked about, again 😏
ya pretty much what im thinking. the main takeaway is, if youre thinking about being a user of a mint, move the nuts to lightning every transaction. if you do use it for nwc, you're paying in advance that budget.
good perspective
yup, what friend ever is like: here's some money, but ill hold it for you, .. 🦨 😅
The risk to rug is the same between lightning and mint if neither is mine. Privacy is better with mint. I expect semi trusted brands like Alby could adopt mints as a benefit for all. But i would also expect government pressures will make large popular mints difficult, making them always the realm of the shadow people. I want to try running a node, but i hear maintaining a lightning node in good operation is hard complicated work that looses out as a profit maker. I assume these pressures have shaped Alby’s choice in creating the hub, which is not as vulnerable to government pressure?
yeah, this idea is super interesting in this context.
@Niel Liesmons and I (and others) talked about this idea at NostRiga.
Proof of membership. There is a public member list (in this case that's the relay-based-community list) and you want to prove your npub is part of that list without revealing to the verifier which npub u are.
There is a way to do it by using zero-knowledge sets, however my understanding is limited. It should be similar to (and simpler than?) the work
@npub1vadc...nuu7 is doing (tldr; prove that I own UTXOs that exceed the value of X sats, without revealing with ones)
