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Experience is a better teacher than more schooling he already has had plenty of schooling

i would absolutely recommend getting on the job experience.

Master's degree in CS is more or less useless. Get real experience ASAP, even if it's for free on open source projects. I've interviewed PhDs from MIT that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. I've interviewed high school dropouts that understood operating systems at a deep level. More education is almost always inferior to real experience.

I see stories like this all the time Jobs are being "off-shored" to AI. https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqstvd47792r56lme0yz950hncye0nfkxwm40l9vapd5vzqwup6kwdgs96znq

Therefore, I think it makes sense to learn a trade as a backup plan instead of obtaining a masters.

You go to university to learn. If you need to learn something to get the job you want, or learn something for another reason is beside the point. I think you should look at it the other way around, if he is concerned about money he should learn a trade.

A masters in math and make sure you’re learning things most CS graduates don’t understand.

speaking from database development side, no one ever asked me to see an undergrad degree much less a masters... it was all about the experience with the particular skills (oracle, sql, etc). i thought masters degrees should pay the student to get them (maybe with exception of MBA)? or there is usually some guaranteed promise of being a teacher's assistant or something... it could be a good backup job plan if it's coupled with a research or teaching job. so maybe apply for grad school while looking for jobs to keep all options open?

Advise him to interview for both jobs and Master's programs. If a top-tier program with funding offers a clear specialization advantage, consider it. Otherwise, diving into building with a Bitcoin company or tech firm could accelerate his learning and impact far more than another degree.

nostr:npub1356t6fpjysx9vdchfg7mryv83w4pcye6a3eeke9zvsje7s2tuv4s4k805u if nostr has taught me one thing is that the devs and builders here value proof-of-work. I am sure there is value in whatever path is chosen in the options that your son has in front of him. That said proof-of-work, in the open, that is verifiable can only better help arm your son with real-world experience. There are plenty of open source projects your son can pick up. The most important thing is to find something he cares about enough to contribute to. Here is a contributing to FOSS article I wrote a while back. I wrote the article with non-devs/product people in mind. The core principle of contributing without permission can be applied to devs. I'd even go a step further to say that overall devs are better suited to jump into FOSS contributions right away. nostr:naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzq96n3hp2vfmf6z2y8uvvxl97xk86kkalnqghx4p25lzl79c76a7yqq2nx3zlvaznvanp2su5km2nxuex5t2nwcmxk88864d https://nostr.at/naddr1qvzqqqr4gupzq96n3hp2vfmf6z2y8uvvxl97xk86kkalnqghx4p25lzl79c76a7yqq2nx3zlvaznvanp2su5km2nxuex5t2nwcmxk88864d

Article was inspired by nostr:npub1j8y6tcdfw3q3f3h794s6un0gyc5742s0k5h5s2yqj0r70cpklqeqjavrvg who showed me the path on how I can contribute to FOSS 🥾⛰

What job or business does he have as his end in mind?

Not sure.

Do you guys think that would be a good idea to suss out before making a decision?

Huge congrats to your son! A lot of people, especially OSS devs, poo-poo book-learnin'. I can see where they come from, I'm a software engineer at a larger tech company and I've worked with both dumb Ivy-leaguers and brilliant dropouts. But, one consistent advantage I see with the folks who've done 4 year programs is the breadth of their foundation. Simply knowing about the existence of common terms / concepts is a surprisingly powerful unlock because you know what to google for. On the other hand, all the accolades and resume builders in the world will only buy you a foot in the door and 30 seconds of somebody's attention. After that, charisma and competence are basically the only things that matter. For competence, your son should know how to demonstrate WHAT he's capable of doing. For charisma, he should be able to explain WHY: why should others find his work as interesting or useful as he does? That said, getting a foot in the door isn't easy right now. Encourage your son to find side projects he enjoys while he bides his time getting an interview. The best side projects are almost always the things you make for yourself. Also, he should feel no shame reaching out to people to ask for mentorship and referrals. It may feel like you're bothering people when you ask for their help, but it reality you're doing them a favor. There's no better gift you can give someone than the gift of being needed. People love to mentor - it scratches an itch right at the bottom of the brainstem. A last note: AI isn't truly replacing developers anytime soon, although companies will use it as an excuse to cut down on one of their most expensive cost-centers. The current state of the job market has much more to do with the current macro landscape and optics management for investors. If a company lays off 10% of their workforce, stock dumps. If a company lays off 10% of their workforce because they're just soooo productive with AI? Stock rallies. Best of luck to your son!

Yes. He may have an idea, but I don't.

His biggest problem when interviewing is he is so humble, he down talks his ability while everyone else exaggerates theirs. He is very good at what he does and exceptionally easy to work with. He is a great team builder. He thinks like a computer, so he is perfect for programming, but confuses non-technical people with his hyper-literalness. He just needs to learn to sell himself a bit.

I'm a current programmer and I also got a Master's Degree in computer science back in the day. In my experience for the job market the degree is basically just a credential: It's non-employment work experience that can get you hired to your first job. It worked for me in that regard, but even 1-2 years into my career companies stopped asking me what I did at University. There are however many other ways to show off entry-level credentials. Contributing code to some FOSS project, interning, taking a MooC or a coding camp would all accomplish more or less the same thing. None of these cost as much as a student loan. And after getting a job this sort of experience will cease to matter for employers. Today personally I'd be a bit ambivalent about even getting a BsC instead of doing those things, considering it's basically just an entry credential and the other ones are free or nearly free. MsC I would definitely not recommend just for employment purposes, it's not doing anything for you the BsC won't. If your son is curious about becoming a computer scientist he can take a MsC, this will give him a good idea about what research in the field looks like and if that'd be any fun to go into. Computer science basically becomes "applied mathematics" at the research level. Personally I decided that was not what motivated me, but I'd rather make things with code, so I didn't continue after finishing my degree. But if he's double majoring in math he might find that more enjoyable than I did?

No answer will make sense until that question is answered.

Humility will likely become one of his greatest strengths, even in interview settings. Yeah you ought to ham it up a bit with the non-technical recruiters, but once you're in a room (or more likely zoom call) with real developer talent they tend to smell BS fast. Humility, at least in part, comes from having a vision for all of the things you could do better. If he reframes his achievements from "its not good enough but it doesn't do x,y, and z" to "here's what I've done, and I'd want to do x,y, and z next" he's going to kill it

This guy was called by Yevah to go straight to the job market, I feel. Maybe nostr:nprofile1qy28wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytn00p68ytnyv4mqz9nhwden5te0dehhxarjv4kxjar9wvhx7un8yqqzpkdr9xh6hvnr4zhjz6pcadz7ruzvcvqqwpzxf9rufwg8uxl0tqxhxjfxyc feels the same, but I'd have to speak with him on that matter. Don't send the poor guy to college anyway, as that's debt he won't be able to pay back.

He has a full scholarship.

My gut was that it isn't worth unless there is a specialty he wants to enter. My parents were pushing hard for the masters, so I figured I'd get some input from experienced programmers.

If he’s aiming for roles like software engineering or data analytics, industry experience can be just as valuable as a master’s early on—he can leverage those grades to land a top-tier entry-level role and climb quickly. But if he’s interested in research, advanced roles (like AI/ML research scientist), or academia, a master’s could open those doors. Also, check if his target companies offer tuition reimbursement for grad school later—many tech firms do, so he could work first, then pursue a master’s with less cost burden. However, when he needs to unwind after all that studying Dubai fishing yacht cruises offer a great way to unwind—my family and I did just that last year. Experiencing deep-sea fishing and cruising along Dubai's coastline not only delivers the thrill of adventure but also helps melt away stress. If you need to relax, you can check it out here: https://www.yachtdxb.com/yacht-packages/fishing-yacht-charter-dubai-cruise-catch/

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but (respectfully) he's actually cooked & those degrees don't mean shit. 😬 People much smarter than him have already built the tools to replace him; AI & open-source have ensured that the cost of code production is near-zero (which by proxy also sets the pay rate for that career). 🫠 The sooner he understands this, the better it will be for him; even the most senior devs that I know w/decades of experience are being made redundant & can't find other work. 🤷‍♂️ The silver lining is that he can also use the same tools to vibecode & build out any idea for a valuable product/service himself (in a weekend). 💁‍♂️ Sorry that he got rugpulled on the concept of a "career" (like the rest of us), but "more school" is a scam (he can go to AI/YouTube University & learn everything faster… for free). 😐 Now is the time for him to step back, observe humanity, identify the direction we are heading & go build something that people need; let him know that he doesn't need anyone's permission/validation anymore to "do the thing". 🤙

Yeah I wouldn't say it is. Master's is for deciding if you want a doctorate, not for getting employed outside university. All the employer sees is that he graduated, they don't care about Bachelor's vs Master's.

Personally I think what he's interested in or excels at is going to be what opens up opportunity. CS job market is an absolute wasteland in my almost 2 years being conventionally unemployed with engineering degree and experience. There are tons of "openings" in web development, but mostly being filled with senior positions, or filled with AI currently. Also really depends where hes located or wants to be located. I've heard local/in-person hiring is the only way to really get in. Experience in something niche is really going to help and he should run with it. Like if he has any knowledge of the inside of any industry. Degrees (especially masters and beyond) really help get you tucked nicely into government work. US government (and contractors) strictly hire off degrees. It literally determines your position and your pay ranking. You cannot get hired without proof of a degree. BS really won't get you far in terms of pay, and from what I've heard you can't move vertically without a higher degree which is why most government employees go back to get a masters or more. I know some that went for the fastest and cheapest masters just to get into the job they were qualified for but weren't allowed to do until they had a masters. That said, again unless there is some kind of niche (and especially if you know someone in the industry hes interested in) it's not gonna be easy, and TBH im not sure id want to spend the money for no better chance of getting hired in the field I have over 7 years experience in, even if it's very unconventional. Consider finding some tech hot spots, like Boston, Nashville, Morgantown, DC/Nova/Ashburn area. I've heard Austin, Silicon Valley, Denver but never been. I had some chatter in Detroit but never made the interview. I've heard some guys in tradfi are pretty unaffected by AI right now, but that's only a matter of time. They're really looking for in-office these days, so he may want to save up to try out some of those locations and see where he wants to live.

Very good take!

I didn't realize there was tech in Nashville. That wouldn't be bad. Denver is relatively close to us and would work even though I don't like Colorado anymore. He'd love to come back to Wyoming, but that is about as far from good tech companies as you can get unless you can find something related to oil/gas. I was advising him to basically take the best job he can find, no matter where (with a few exceptions), to build up the experience. Then he can work on getting a job where he'd like to live. I sure wish there was good stuff closer to us.

Does he have an idea of what he likes/wants to work on/build? I think that really helps narrow things down. If his goal is traditional corporate industry, then hes probably going to "conform" to what's most desirable. A nodejs, react, web developer for example. Im talking about technologies really. Almost all job postings will be for some specific technology unless you have some serious experience in say network programming or distributed systems programming or some other hyper specific category that might land you into a niche field. For example game development studios have side projects that might want 10 years experience in low latency and efficient network or systems programming.

Greeting a masters will make him "over qualified" for more jobs.