Replies (123)
I really wish people stopped doing nostr DMs.
Im not pushing one solution, im advocating a real solution to the international money problem.
There is no other tool that offers such a solution.
There is no irony here no.
@jb55 are DMs encrypted on nostr?
I thought that was the point
Iβm not a nocoiner; Iβm waiting for the nostr to add support for sone sweet CBDCs
I'm sure that's coming. I think that a CBDC only stance counts as nocoiner.
There was no arguing. It was just you being called out for bs and immediately running away you referral link samourai.
Contact Do Kwon and Sam Bankrupt Fraud. They'll have a long list of reputable people for you π
What is Finney attack?
Basically an attack against 0conf or trampoline channels or what have you. Basically people who think the transactions in peoples RAM, not written to the HDD as part of the merkle tree we call the timechain, might be a bit surprised to read about this.
Bitcoin Stack Exchange
What is a Finney attack?
What is a Finney attack? Extra points for explaining its purpose, the prerequisites for it to be possible, how the attack can be performed and the ...
Hey! Thanks for your reply, Iβm merely looking for like-minded people. It started as a question / conversation, why did it turn into a lecture?
Iβm well aware of what Bitcoin is and what it represents, Iβve been in the space 7 years.
Iβm on Damus, where apparently itβs mostly maxis, exactly BECAUSE Iβm not in it for the moon and CT does have its limits. I want thinking and innovation, Iβm fascinated by the tech, but to claim that BTC has not shortcomings is a lie. CSW is suing BTC devs to force them to fork the code to return him the BTCs he lost in MtGox. Can they do it? Yes. Could Mining pools be sued in their turn to endorse the fork? Yes. So seems thereβs a problem.
Nothing in life is perfect, BTC isnβt a religion and the White Paper isnβt a Bible. And if they were, know that no war of religion ended up with either side winning.
We shouldnβt expect the WP to be faultless supposed and stare at problems without hope. As all tech, BTC is a work in progress. So screw the problems, and letβs talk about solutions. I love solutions, Iβm a problem solver and working on my own solutions to some of BTCs shortcomings. So is this a place where people are open to listening?
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Bitcoin maxipads are monopolists. You want a mono-polar financial instrument. Just one instrument that is also one Store of Value that is also one Medium of Exchange that is also one Fantastic Investment Opportunity. You also want One Grand Unified Ledger, not multiple ledgers.
I'm not pushing one solution, there's no other solution I am pushing. Gotcha.
Only the `message` value is encrypted. All metadata is public, and your public IP's are logged at the relays. And the `message` value is decrypted by *any* party to the conversation's nsec, so even that obfuscation (not privacy, just obfuscation of a public record) can be undone without any fault of your own, by some other party leaking their key.
To see just how bad DMs are, login using jb55 or someone else's npub and take a look at the Messages. You can see who, when, how often, who sends more messages, what time of night, etc.
Historically, real gold was the only solution, anyone who adopted silver got rekt.
Here we go again...
What a load of bull. Historically, merchant-issued credit was the primary solution. Each merchant generated their own currency and maintained their own ledger. You know, decentralized, not a central issuer with a central ledger like Bitcoin.
#[57] The closest electronic solution to the merchant-issued decentralized credit notes I've seen is Pear Credit, which is blockchain-free like Nostr and doesn't require maintenance or fees because they're not trying to maintain a single authoritative global state like Bitcoin.
Free audio book "Debt: The First 5000 Years" by David Graeber here. A study of how people akshully traded before centrally issued brand name currencies, like USD or Bitcoin.
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/64160itβs been a while since i read it, but doesnβt graeber argue that early credit based systems worked well in small networks where trust was high but didnβt work so well when transacting outside those networks?
Lmao so youre totally confused between ledgers & currency at this point.
Lmfao, oh mannnnnn
Youβre drowning in so many psyops that youβre now incapable of comprehension.
It's not necessisarilly that we all want it, it's just that we all recognize that it's inevitable whether we want it or not...
Ah youβre mad because we donβt want a βdecentralizedβ protocol with a huge pre-mine and changing narratives
Nope. I am against all grand unified ledgers (blockchains), since they are all centralized (one authoritative version of all-the-data) and distributed -- not decentralized.
Yeah I turned it into a lecture because crypto is just a scam. Companies ran by either a working group of other companies with a CEO who can make arbitrary changes or just a head CEO and no other working group. Its like bringing robux and runescape gold under the same "digital asset" umbrella as Bitcoin.
You're in it for the tech but that's where you already messed up. Bitcoin is a social construct first and software second. Suing volunteer developers is not a problem with Bitcoin, its a problem with society, but all it means is volunteer devs will stay anonymous.
Third even if you accept the idea of an innovative robux token or twitch bits or twitter coin (is in store credit innovative again? Talk about a throw back) there are many issues with these systems design choices. Any data not inherent to computing (information that exists outside the chain) has to go through an Oracle. Well why didn't you just start with a multi sig of oracles? Its cheaper and makes way more sense!
Nostr is filled with maxis because nostr was created to demonstrate that everything being built on "web3" could be done better without a timechain.
I can totally agree with this.. however there is some truth in lies and some lies in the truth β―οΈ
This is one of the most retarded take I've ever seen. Money is not an asset per se, how can it be monopolistic, oligopolistic or whatever. It's a tool and tools are neutral. You're talking about securities, that's where your logic comes in action. Cryptos are securities because they're issued by central entities.
Guess who is behind bitcoin? No-fucking-body.
Yeah, the perfectly mysterious Creation myth! :p I bet the 'who' is behind Bitcoin looks like a large cube in the desert covered in black glass.
No-fucking-body? Who arbitrarily chose the 21M in digital fiat tokens? It's nowhere in the whitepaper.
Who centrally planned and artificially fixed the rate of supply in advance, removing the price stabilizing Austrian mechanism of a market-determined rate of supply which can naturally adapt to counterbalance price swings due to changes in demand? Guaranteeing volatility into perpetuity.
Who was that central planner? No-fucking-body? You sure about that? Of all the weird things blockheads say, calling a human agent or a human agency 'No-fucking-body' is right up there with calling a grand unified blockchain 'decentralized' instead of distributed.
Nicely put
Except, you know, that a thing's volatility retards it's use case as a dispassionate means of exchange. Worst of all, expecting a unit to be worth more next month makes you less likely to hire Johnny to mow your lawn this month, making everyone poorer on net. Since, as the Austrian school shows, prosperity does not excrete from a printing press, a mining rig, or a fixed-pie token gambling pool.
Prosperity excretes from the felt improvement in standard of living for each party to a voluntary exchange. This is where seeing 'medium of exchange' as 'fantastic investment opportunity' work at cross-purposes. One facilitates exchanging. The other penalizes exchanging and rewards declining to exchange (hoarding aka hodling aka the opposite of making a voluntary, prosperity-generating exchange).
Maximalism is a synonym for monopolistic fanaticism, right or wrong. Nothing to do with a plurality of decentralized solutions. One grand unified eternal immutable global ledger or bust.
Not inevitable, he's talking about use cases that retard each other. See my response.
Quite the opposite Michael, adoption is happening irrelevant to any of our passion. We merely point out what we've learnt and stand by vehemently. "Shitcoiners" are mostly gamblers desperate for returns with little regard for the underlying tech or any thought about its effect on society for the better.
'Toxic Maxi' imo is a lazy slur on people who put in the hours and stand for something. Very rare these days and to be admired
That's not the thesis at all.
Since youre incapable of having an honest conversation, read the sovereign individual, it was written in 1996 - so pre btc.
Read the book, or dont & keep spewing nonsense.
Thatβs the problem with Keynesianism and shitcoining in general - the belief that you can βexcrete prosperityβ.
What do you do for a living?
I SHIT EXCELLENCE
Lysander comes across as someone really beating themself up and then getting angry again and repeating. I have a colleague like this who however much says he wishes to talk about a topic just answers for you and argues with himself π€·ββ
I've have read swaths of it. I saw nothing 'sovereign' about what's now better called 'the network state'. I see it along the lines of The Zeitgeist who were openly pushing post-state blockchain based Communism.
- There's nothing 'sovereign' about taking the choice of ledger (or none at all) out of the hands of the trading parties themselves and logging it all in one grand unified public blockchain.
- There's nothing 'sovereign' about depending on a centrally issued fiat (yes, 21M is an arbitrary number, proving it's fiat nature -- could have just as easily been 42M cos it was decreed into existence) token.
- There's nothing 'sovereign' about being unable to buy or sell bananas without a electricity and an Internet connection.
Here's a book I highly recommend for you -- "Debt: The First 5000 Years" by David Graeber is a study of actually decentralized currency; how people traded before centrally issued fiat wannabe-monopoly brands like USD and BTC:
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/64160
Free audiobook version. The 2nd chapter is called "The Myth of Barter". It wasn't that. Each merchant generated their own credit, on their own private ledger, which was destroyed without a trace when they 'broke even'. Your grand unified global public ledger knows nothing of decentralization.
Notice how not a single blockchain enthusiast has been able to avoid the ad hominem personal attack? That's how you know you're dealing with cognitive dissonance.
Nostr has laid bare just how centralized Bitcoin Core with it's ~5 core developers + the grand unified Bitcoin blockchain with a singular authoritative version, distributed not decentralized, really are.
Not a personal attack, just noticing how you love getting wound up. You want everyone to agree with you about your view of Bitcoin. No one does but you still keep arguing on. π€·ββοΈ
What would you gain with a multitude of monies as opposed to one solid measurement of value?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already, but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already.
This is true for #[2] and most other brainwashed economist nowadays. They will all die on the hill, that they know better already.
Most non economists understand #Bitcoin way faster by approaching the topic from first principles. Especially if they live in authoritarian regimes with high inflation.
#plebchain
I approach life from this view and agree. I don't wish to attack Lysander, he has his views and I respect them. I just don't agree and it's pointless to keep arguing round and round as he does. After quite a while now in and around Bitcoin's deep rabbit hole it's clear this is a phenomenal paradigm shift to a sound money standard and what it will bring for so many
I fully agree. Itβs clear that he hasnβt done the work after reading some notes, which is fine as long as he does not attack people with another opinion.
Anyway, he will get humbled as everybody else who attacks #Bitcoin. They are all actually attacking their own reputation.
#followed BitcoinSandy
So your reading comprehension is nill, this isnt an ad hominem - just a conclusion im forced to make if this what youre focused on, rather than the actual thesis of why a cryptographoc currency is not only viable, but will allow people to more readily vote with their feet.
Another lie, to obfuscate weak argument (s).
Agreed Sandy.
If someone argues using a long list of names and spams my notifications with nonsense, he doesn't deserve a response. That's like a salesperson placing his foot in the door. Debates are not held like that.
Can you guys stop tagging everybody?
Oh cool, you can remove the tags
How?
On amethyst, click on those little Xs near the names.
Don't know on Damus though, I wiped my iPad clean
Damn, that's dope, iris doesnt have that.
It's the beauty of having different interfaces on beta, functions are coming for everybody and it creates FOMO ππ gotta love the early days of nostr
Yep, monopolistic fanaticism to end central banking.
An eternal, immutable end to the fuckers.
I love it.
βWe mustβ, βrevolutionβ, βno invididualismβ.
Sounds pretty Marxist to me.
Funny the 'shitcoiners' say the same thing about 'Toxic maxi' as well.. it's almost like there is a shared mindset there... this idea that "you're not doing what I'm doing or believing in what I believe therefore you are whatever thing I say you are" - which also just happens to be that the 'others' are wrong and stupid and so on.
There is value in other coins as well. Personally I think BTC / LTC / DOGE are the ones who will survive. They're the Gold, silver, and bronze of the crypto world.
Many will disagree with that, doesn't matter. They're allowed to. I'm not going to call them dumb or anything though, as generally anyone getting into any crypto is a good thing. It promotes learning about the space and sooner or later everyone comes around to BTC, once you can get past the 'community' that is...
Monopolistic fanaticism only creates a new center. That's all Bitcoin bros wanna do. Establish a new center, and intricately log every transaction on Earth in one place -- not move into the multi-polar world that actually frees people.
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#Plebchain follow list for newcommers
#[0]
π€π€π€π€π€
Furious π€¬
π
I had never seen 80% of that list. Are these all normal people, not bots? And they are active on Nostr too? Impressive.
These recommendation lists would be a great place to have usable relay hints.
View quoted note βNah, 80% of them don't believe in decentralization that much, or at least less than they do in clout.
π
Make a list on listr.lol :)
#plebchain starter list
View quoted note βreal human being here
I don't think this is true, anymore. It's increasingly boring goldbugs and stockholders, like me.
I got bored pretending there was something better. With the implementation of lightning, it killed the other coins possibilities. I belive we will see all the good and useful innovation from all other chains on bitcoin at some layer.
You still hold stocks?
Yes. Metals, too.
Metals, I understand. We'll always need them. What sectors are you focused in? π€
Really, really dull.
Mostly broad indices and raw materials, but we hold a few shares in some tech companies whose products we know from work.
What would you the case is for gold within the next five years?
Slow decline until demonization. Much slower than fiat, though.
Stocks is better, as companies can recapitalize with Bitcoin, but gold takes the volatility out.
Thanks! I'm just trying to get a read on the current market. Haven't been paying too much attention. Been busy with other stuff. But, if I can make a good amount of profit before the 2028 halving, I'm all for getting into stocks.
You can't. Everything about to go down. Sorry.
Well, don't I have the shittiest luck?! π
π€·ββοΈ
Yeah, In a 2007/09 scenario everything gets smoked.
BTC goes back to 10k before the moon.
Population is declining. What ya gonna do?
Deflation is a biatch.
Good for stacking, tho.
You are actually debating and arguing in a hellthread
Only a hell thread if youβre not interested.
Feel free to mute.
The rest of us will have reasonable debates and learn something.
βWe?β
I'm married.
Just discovered the hell thread! Yes I believe everything breaks soon in the market... TO THE SKY!
By that I mean I think we are at the point that Von Misses would describe as the "crack up boom" . See the Venezuela or Zimbabwe stock market over the last decade as an example
πππ
Was hoping you were actually a PM for a billion dollar fund.
π© posting on Nostr for fun!
Is there a way to follow them all with a few clicks?
LOL nope.
I actually knew someone with a billion dollar fund, tho, but his money never rubbed off on me. π
I bet he's stacking sats, tho. Totally the type.
Awesome list 𧑠thank you
you can find crypto enthusiasts over at X.
Do you seriously think CSW can hurt #Bitcoin? Sued pools? LOL
If you're involved for 7 years, you weren't paying attention at all. The ".ethard" looks really great, never get rid of it, cryptobro.
Itβs mostly maxis but as some people said, nostr is an open protocol. Itβll soon be filled with scammers and grifters. Imho Bitcoin solves the monetary problem but there are other problems to be solved as well
Holy shit there's a lot of new faces (to me anyways) in this thread. Time to get following.
Sup guys? Mini #hellthread? π€£
Hellthread revival? π€£
Wonder the same thing
Not angry.
I guess I just have to miss out on another hell thread.
Some cool Bitcoin twitter names here. Did you mean to tag their twitter handles cuz they ainβt using nostr
They're real but this post was made long time ago. So they might be inactive.
I am sort of here lol
Some of us are unreal
Me too. Sometimes.
Hi everyone
Hi barto π€
π«‘
GM barto
No! The majority of these guys are retards from the twitter
harsh
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