the two largest bitcoin mining pools in the world - Foundry USA and Antpool - require identity verification on all miners that use them
53% of global bitcoin hash rate has been doxxed between these two pools...
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Replies (136)
Isn’t Foundry using StratumV2?
If they tried this kind of thing, the miners would leave their pools very quickly.
Why hard for those miners to switch pools?
They’re regulated US companies. The reason they use foundry is because foundry handles all the checkboxes that they need.
Whats up with an open source mining pool repo?
@Tatum Turn Up @Derek Ross
#Poolstr
Guys, this means only one thing!
We need to make a nostr pool, with nostr identity "verification", so no KYC at all.
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Miners need to grow a pair of balls…
This is an insidious fight you stage.
Shocking
Large miners are already doxxed.
It's the small miners that hold the line in decentralization.
Switch 👏 to 👏 other 👏 pools 👏
I mine with Braiins, but they haven’t been winning blocks much this month. Didn't expect their market share to be so low either.
And only Braiins uses Stratum V2?
Will stratum v2 help with this at all?
no. the individuals in the pool can easily switch between pools
And therein lies a very serious problem. Too much hash power in Checkboxistan.
And more pools with the same checkboxes isn't going to help.
Indeed!
Decentralise #bitcoiming and bring it back to the plebs!
Let's hope that as ASIC technology evolves its rate of improving will be reduced, so ASICs will operate efficiently much longer.
And then #homemining could compete again with #industrialmining.
🫂
Miners used to have the good sense to switch pools.
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Its very simple, we need low power miners for at home mining. I can't run a 3kW miner at home, the power bill would dox me and I can't afford it. Even a 1kW miner would be a stretch, it'd be a huge increase to my usage. I need something in the range of 500W with reasonable efficiency, meaning if newer miners are running 3kW at 110-150 the, I need something close to 15tH. Now we just needs $10'sM...
The disincentive of murdering the golden goose keeps them at bay.
I’m looking forward to my asic powered hot water heater
Thanks for the heads up on this! Very interesting.
Foundry USA has some Chinese shares as I know. And Antpool and the F2 pool are the same hand, it's Bitmain.
*in
If this was news to you, you haven't been paying attention.
If this scares you, you don't understand Bitcoin as well as you told yourself this morning.
If you think these mining pools will exist long term, you're a 🌈🐻.
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That's the possibility of 51% attack
Lowly pleb miner bucking that trend
Don't think so. Chinese pools drive the mining industry.
For non KYC pools with decent hashpower, I have enjoyed F2Pool and Slushpool (now called Brains Pool). Both have nice mobile apps for monitoring. F2Pool is obviously finding more blocks atm vs. Brains bc of their hashpower, but your payout is larger from Brains but less frequent. Could be worth splitting your miners into multiple pools to help contribute to a more decentralized network. However, on average they seem to come out to similar payouts in the longer term from the S19J Pros I have been experimenting with on both pools. Hope that helps and happy hashing! Have a great weekend <3
What about the super low rate nerd miners? After all the point isn't to win necessarily but create an affordable miner with an army of users to secure voting positions?
Truth. You are a braver person than me. Electricity is just too expensive where I am and I have too little hashpower to go alone for now. Have you ever found a block solo? Must be an amazing feeling
Love Brains, but you are right. It does hurt going a day without finding a block w Brains, so I split miners between Brains and F2Pool for a bit more consistent rewards. I guess that's just the cost of trying to be decentralized.
I do not see a problem in this. Rather not KYC of course. Worse case they move (again) to another country if it gets out of hand.
Sure. Find a reputable seller and go for it. You will want to make sure you have the appropriate power set-up and a well ventilated area where you/your neighbors won't be bothered by the exhaust heat and noise of air cooling. But they are relatively cheap compared to prices a year ago, and it has been a fun learning experience even if you don't make a ton. Happy mining ⛏️
I think the nerdminer is cool and all, but it seems like the hash rate is hillarioisly low, it still needs to be relatively competitive. It doesn't need to provide a profit perse, but it needs to be enough to pressure the kycd miners.
unfortunately, only alt coins and offshore mining, imho
Bitcoin mining is now an industrial trade for better or worse, more due to economics than regulatory reasons
Lightning Network offers some privacy options to users. It will be interesting to see if US regulatory authorities make good on threat of considering LN operators "money transmitters" under longstanding current US laws.
Is that the solution? millions of small scale miners? i wouldn’t be surprised at all.
Is this the bigger miners, trying to pre-empt a compulsion to do this anyway from the state?
i.e. if we 'regulate ourselves' and 'be good' we can be transparent, and ultimately be left alone - without the need for enforcement that might reach over and above?
Billions of micro miners, fishing for winning lottery tickets.
Millions of miners, using excess heat.
Thousands of large miners.
Oh gosh no lol I just wish it was still all solo. I get were at an unmanageable difficulty but pools are the opposite of what Bitcoin is meant to be
💯
You are right. Maybe when I get some solar set up I'll dedicate a rig to solo mining... Probably better odds than playing the lottery, and for a good cause. Until I can get some energy independence, I guess the pools will have to do.
That's why Monero CPU mining with all its shortcomings matters.
That’s why it’s gone?
We will all learn the hard way. It's the only way for most of us...
How much would you say, someone with Zero experience in mining would need to spend to get down on this F2pool and make some profits within a year??
“The purpose of the system is what it does, not what it claims to do.” -Stafford Beer-
Shortsighted, imho. They are signing their own death warrant.
Maybe it is time for pleb pool!
Pleb pools must grow stronger and more scattered.
Decentralized mining. Thousands, hundreds of thousands of computers with usb mining plugs doing 5-10gh/s
We need to decentralize mining. I know its not obvious, but relying on these big pools is a vector of attack for bitcoin.
I'm certain today's chip makers could make usb asic sticks like the blockeruptors of old. 200,000 people each running a usb asic at 5-10gh/s and linked to an independent pool could make a difference
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Nope, ASIC mining & free market competition for PoW equipment is superior in every way.
The willingness of Bitcoiners to ignore other projects that follow the same ideals, but with different trade-offs is beyond belief. Monero's P2P pool works today and miners won't KYC- ever, thanks to CPU mining. Which of course has some other downsides. But that's the nature of trade-offs.
If we want to build systems that create a stable foundation for future generations we need to understand that everything in this world is polarity that needs to be "managed" in order to not become one-sided. Nature is a perfect example in that regard.
Monero means home mining.
Bitcoin means industrial mining.
Appreciate what is. There are trade-offs and each project needs to decide what to emphasise. One can not become everything for all that's why there is beauty in this movement as former trade-offs become trade-fors.
Both Bitcoin and Monero are important in their own ways.
No it didn't stop. Bitcoin moved on to other important things. It still lives on in Monero.
V2? ...tho shall not split and indirect sign... and lose denyabilty , ...otoh under pow might be shards with privacy, but there can only be one pow global coin in the universe. So all should have been under the one software bitcoin umbrella.
Indeed. And the answer here is - you cannot comply your way out of fascism/communism.
Hopefully a "ton" is all relative to time preference. I wouldn't be looking to sell anything I mined regardless of how much I mined.
Thank you for the zap, good sir. ✌
This is scary!
When p2pool on bitcoin?
Monero is showing the way
Home mining, yes, but it must be done with ASICs to achieve a meaningful percentage.
I have faith with the next iterations of #nerdminers and #bitaxe projects.
💪
Not true. As a regular user its much more practical, convenient to use my PC when i dont use it or even say let 30% of the cpu work for monero.
With BTC you need special hardware mainly from china. Bullshit warranty, wait time, manipulation, TAX and postage .....so much crap just to mine.
With regular hardware anyone can buy its doable for everyone. I rather have milljons of people support the network than hundreds with their farms. But that's me.
A voir si pour les mineurs la décentralisation est importante et la façon dont ils vont réagir.
Vont-ils s'identifier sagement ou choisir d'autres pools plus respectueuses de la vie privée ?
Not cool.
Solutions for competitive mining from home is the way to go
F2pool seems to be involved in scams tho
Hyper-KYC-coinication 😏
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Antpool just started requiring KYC meaning more then half of miners are identified.
But no free market competition for different hardforks? Odd
What a load of crap,
Good luck mining cents meanwhile the botnet army of mining occurs on stolen computing using malware.
You have the crypto version of communism right in front of you and you can't see it...it's all theater.
Likewise, what a load of crap!
I don't care much for "earning" but more about supporting the network.
And as anything Monero just as well as Bitcoin can and will be used by criminals. So what?
Are you saying none of the BTC miners is part of criminal organisation? Yeah right! Be delusional and support big corps line Antminer who scam everyone with their miner each time.
Either way privacy by default is the way to go!
Now you're just saying things I didn't say to knock em down plus a bunch of dumb bullshit.
Enjoy your monero! Hope you're all in because it's the best thing ever! 👏👏👏👏
Bitcoi Ming?
At the moment. Yes
Plebs need to mine off pool with cheap hardware as well.
If billions of micro miners are fishing for lotto tickets on the open waters, it can end up incentivizing larger players to do the same.
I do like Bitcoin but i would have preferred it was hardware that was more accessible.
Next the lack of privacy is crap. That is one reason i rather use Monero or LTC with MW.
What your lacking to understand is that LN which everyone seem to promote is the definition of centralization. Same with Asic mining. How many companies can afford the big farms ?? Not many i bet and it just became even more expensive for them,,,,
I have yet to get hit with anything dirty from them, but I still appreciate the heads up. Will keep an extra eye on those miners and be ready to move them to a new pool if F2Pool pulls anything scammy. Any recommendations for another pool other than Braiins?
Like I said you're a communist,
Rather than relish competition, actual free market competition - you want the protocol to basically be for basement dwellers as you can't mine it meaningfully.
If I want to mine pennies worth of bitcoin I can do that too with readily available hardware.
Idk how this a point you guys try and make, it's a dumb point for people sipping dumbfuckjuice.
As for the privacy part, I've already gone over this 100x & if you don't understand - you're probably too far gone anyways.
Enjoy your "privacy" masturbation.
Compliance to government ID is the way to go down to the road of hell
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All Monero shows me is how to have your wealth debased by #Bitcoin
It's so 'great' that its users will eternally have their wealth debased by #Bitcoin
1. Go buy a miner (try kaboomracks on telegram).
2. Plug it in.
Sry didn't actually answer your question. I just got three s9's for $300 shipped.
Why wouldn't you just use another pool. That's strange.
We never saw the 53% Attack coming.
Or we could change the mining algorithm, making all those dedicated ASIC's obsolete overnight. Return to the days of CPU mining.
The best is when they call you "NGU" bro for bringing this up 😂😭
Kaboom racks are good peeps, better than amazon
Cope, Hope, Broke
Incentivized how?
If the incentive is to break Bitcoin and they can, Bitcoin is dead.
No, they all seem to be negligently harming Bitcoin at best
Not really. The shirtcoin is much easier to attack, that's not the way we want to go.
One day you'll understand why #Bitcoin is the way. Good luck on your journey.
And face the possibility of easy attack like CPU mineable shirtcoins are.
#Bitcoin is strong also because it doesn't change the rules overnight.
Exactly this.
😂
They all in it to “save the world” my arse 🤣
“Im beyond your economic incentives it all about free speech!” 🤣
Basically they're telling us they want their 'privacy' money to incentivize them to sell their house and move into a cardboard refrigerator box.
Monero is totally irrelevant but nice try.
🤣
Oops!
BitcoiN MinINg!!!
Good catch! 🫂
Aren't miners supposed to migrate voluntarily to other pools?
The solution is that every bitcoiner needs to at minimum run an S9 and point at slushpool. Even if it is a net loss. The combined hash will add up.
They need to keep inflating the supply to support the miners though 🤡
Why is everything about drivechains these days. 😫
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Bitcoiners need to keep inflating txn fees to support the miners though 🤡
All Bitcoin shows me is how to have your wealth surveillable, nonfungible, and prohibitively expensive to transact on chain in the near future #Monero
You are calling bitcoin decentralized virtual crypto currency, but obvious problem is seeing that whole mining system is centralized and it critically depends on huge technical things that must be powered by electricity that is centralized system too. Bitcoin is moving into trap. Proof of work consensus is moving into trap. It is bullshit to tell that you can keep on renewables and your own sources, those big ones already have you in trap. Stories about decentralized bitcoin are just fairytales. Col delegated proof of stake consensus into mining pools would represent mamy times more protection for bitcoin than this, those like nodes would be able to run anywhere powered just by sun and 100% protected from censorship.
Potentially one big drawback to PPLNS locking people with big expenses in.
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Get out
Reminds me of how the charts of staking pools look for shitcoins. I'm no Bitcoin magician, but it just doesn't look decentralized enough.
Some example: 
In the future maybe. RN not really
Bitcoin is the way.
Nevertheless you have to be honest about problems and good solution by other projects
Centralized kyced mining is a problem (and an attack vector)
P2pool is a solution (with tradeoffs)
you post some funny ass memes
Like hell it isn't...
Draw the graph for bitcoin starting q4 of 2020….
good points. no need to shout though
Still debased. What's your point?
#noKYC #sovereignty
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There will be chenges soon
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Where are the bitcoin heaters at?
This is , like, not cool man.
They can switch whenever they want.
DCG and friends have ALWAYS been an enemy of Bitcoin
what are these miners getting in exchange? what's incentivising them not to switch?
There are 2016 blocks every 2 weeks, surely income stability can't be a factor especially if you're a public miner and report quarterly earnings - even if you're a 1% hashrate pool that's about 262 blocks in a Q with reasonable certainty and even a chance of being lucky and getting more.
Because if you're are registered business making profits and paying taxes, kyc isn't a problem. A half decent accountant will minimize your taxes, and you don't have to sneak around like a low life criminal when everything is above board.