all needs thing that vibe You broken of realize unmaintained you’re what clients. last coding, is right? The is do nostr more proof half concept

more non-tech people spamming MVPs and selling them as finished articles what could go wrong

What nostr needs is less bitching about what others are doing, and more actual focus on listening to regular people and what they want. Currently basically all devs are building for themselves and friends. Not the general public.

I'm using AI to make it more maintainable and that turns our to not be a good vibe, so it's mostly manual work, which is why only a masochist like myself would ever do it, but I'm legit excited reading through my lovely code, now. It's like an instruction manual.

I needed 3 different web apps to post and read this note. 😂 Q.E.D.

Let the kids be Mazin. They’re having their first “Visual Basic” / “Delphi” / “FrontPage” magical experience. They feel like they can build anything! Meanwhile, the usual Nostr influencers are just "nostr influencing" (whatever that means). Worst-case scenario: we end up with a bunch of ephemeral, unmaintainable apps, nsecs and private data leaking everywhere. They'll make a mess, disappear with a whole bunch of sats, and vanish into thin air. All while giving new Nostr users quite the ride. Who never? 🤣 Sure, it was all a bit cuter when I was 13 and the worst that could happen was breaking the LAN at the university my parents worked for (and giving some poor sysadmin a terrible afternoon... Now that I think about it... Karma is a bitch). Well... Kids today might stay teenagers until their mid-forties and do a lot more damage than we ever did. But it's basically the same thing on steroids. Still, I think this is mostly a positive thing. Some of them will learn proper software engineering along the way and actually build something great. Others will burn out, give up, disappear, get sued, or get paid to ruin a different ecosystem. It’s all part of the process. You can’t stop it.

The problem with apps being maintained was here way before vibe coding. We’re just having fun. People who want working apps should build something monetizeable or don’t expect for it to stick around.

Be the change you want then. Go build for the general public. Nostr thanks you :)

Plenty of crappy monetized apps around though. And plenty of great OSS Software that never made contributors even a dime. But I agree with the overall sentiment.

I mean, it's sort of nuts, as I've now put in over 70 hours, to get it to almost-do what it was doing before, but a bit neater, while everyone else is delivering, delivering, delivering.

Nah. Family is over screens this way. Sorry. 🤷 Teaching or taking my kids to a new park, trail, etc brings me more joy than learning to code social media. Shit ruined humans... look at us now... Summer of 2008 was peak humanity.

i personally get tired of the endless release announcements i'm starting to unfollow people who post or repost them way too often if their release tempo on brand new products is that fast, is there any chance that these are quality? my first feeling is of inadequacy, but realistically, they can't possibly be stable or even hardly tested. the pressure to ship is a real plague for quality

We did the same in the early days of Bitcoin. The good stuff will prevail. They bad stuff nobody will remember. Just let it run and have some fun

It do be like that, tho. We were shipping faster, for a while, trying to keep up, and now we're sluggish, cleaning up after ourselves. And there's so much more to clean up!

Being polished is an art 💜⚡️

I feel the same way :). GenAI feels painful though. Prompt, rollback, try again, break something else, rollback again, and so on. AI never quite gets what I want right. There's room for all sorts of folks, though. I admire the "ship raw" crowd, it takes guts to do that. I struggle with analysis paralysis and endless side quests. For people like me, who were already finding it hard to deliver a personal vision within proper time constraints even before GenAI, this kind of tool often becomes a huge distraction (it can actually sink productivity even further). Hopefully, I'll learn how to work with it better. But I'm glad that folks like you are building Alexandria at your own pace. Some projects can be fast and loose, while others really deserve more time and care.

all projects should be done carefully. you wouldn't slap together a house the way these people slap together apps. further, these are just clients, they aren't even complicated, and the languages used are extremely forgiving of errors. you simply can't be like that with server backends that are pushing gigabytes of data around. one little error and everything falls apart.

Well, a viewer is not a model. At most, they're building application controlers, but not even that.

I'm probably taking so long because I'm revamping it to move anything SDK-related into the utilities and thinning it out. Codebase keeps getting smaller and smaller. No more NDK or Nostr-tools dependencies, for instance.

Have said the same thing myself. The biggest obstacle to nostr adoption isn’t feature X missing, its half-assed UX and coding standards.

yeah, i'm rewriting realy right now and it probably is going to end up being a smaller codebase too, aside from my fast codecs. the whole private mutes business has put my ACL into disarray tho... it was being used to exclude results from queries based on the authed pubkey, i mean, really, should the relay even be sending events from muted authors? not just wasting my screen space, also wasting my bandwidth and processing decoding this trash.

They aren't building houses though... They're building disposable toys (as per @🐈's post above). Don't get me wrong, I can't work like this myself. But if we treat it as a disposable learning experience (which, yes, may turn out to be a time bomb for users and could even damage Nostr’s reputation further), there is a positive side to it. Building toys publicly, with real users, is a great way to learn. In my opinion, the one thing I do feel strongly about is that vibecoded apps should be clearly identified / labelled as so for users. They should at least know what they're getting into before sharing their credentials or sats.

yeah, disposable toys, that they get paid to build. it's so cynical and unfriendly to users

Since when does anyone on Nostr get paid for building something maintainable? The whole culture is throw-away software.

Bitcoin was literally money, tho, so people had more incentive to stay around.

I agree - my point is exactly that. What we need is polished and fully functional clients with some type of business plan to extend beyond the MVP phase. It’s been said before but grants break this incentive. Releasing the “next big thing” gets a lot more attention and praise than fixing bugs or adding a new feature.

Nostr is an excellent pipeline to get new folks to pay for BTC / lightning / crypto infrastructure wrappers (sorry for being blunt here... But Nostr had a healthy pipeline of noobies coming in, listening to Nostr influencers and wasting money with things they don't need or even understand so that they can zap 500 sars around). There is still enough of a pipeline to keep these "grants" rolling for vibecoded side projects. I.e., it is basically marketing budget. One day the grants are going to dry though. Hopefully a few clients will be mature enough by then. On the relay side of things I think that we'll be fine with or without grants already.

Back then it was a couple of cents then dollars. Sometimes I miss those IRC days. Probably why I love nostr so much . Ofteb reminds me of that time

I have my prototype somewhere

=========================== #2 🔥 Community Highlights =========================== 1. A Heartbreaking moment of a lady pleb View quoted note → 2. The very first funding announcement on #Nostr View quoted note → 3. The Underrated feature on Nostr View quoted note → 4. The last thing Nostr needs View quoted note → 5. Nostr needs more plebs that crazy about it View quoted note → 6. Nostr for Health Challenge with impressive rewards View quoted note → 7. A pleb is trying to pull up a pleb on Nostr View quoted note → 8. A New Vibe coded events app from @Derek Ross View quoted note → 9. A lady is being a Nostr pleb View quoted note → 10. A nice trick to see Nostr anywhere View quoted note → 11. The Proof of Payment of @npub1yye4...hmd0 to the Steak n Shake View quoted note → 12. A Question to every pleb about zap math View quoted note → #community_nostr_recap