Replies (48)
You have no way to tell if Monero has a fixed supply or if it's being corrupted / printed / pumped / dumped just like Etherium
Money without transparency = fiat
Privacy is available at level 2.
Why go to a completely different chain that doesn't have the security or hard supply limit that Bitcoin has?
When you say privacy is available at level 2 what do you mean? Last time I checked LN doesn't have Monero level privacy and it's only private for the sender not the receiver. Unless you are referring to another L2 that I am unaware of and if so, please school me
Hmmm
I understand your pov, but assuming that this correct, given the level of privacy it offers isnt that a worthy trade off for spending not saving?
There are no rational reasons not to own Monero.
There is at least 1 rational reason to prefer Bitcoin, but owning 0.0000 Monero is just irrational.
I've actually heard stories of people/states defeating Monero's privacy and uncovering users. No way to verify, because it's opaque. Kinda like buying a random brown bag from a homeless person.
And money that isn't a good store of value will fail as money. That's a big part of its job. If you have to exchange for each use, that often destroys privacy.
Theres an old saying, “Don’t change horses mid-stream”
Lowery discusses this in Softwar.
“Warfare historically follows an offense-defense leapfrog
a breakthrough offensive advance cannons breaching medieval walls, tanks & blitzkrieg smashing WWI trenches, or drones/missiles shifting modern battles temporarily favors attackers, prompting rapid defensive countermeasures.”
—In this case, layer 2 will have to address Govt intrusion.
🧡👊🏻🍻
Actually there may be a way to verify Monero's privacy failures, but I don't care to look up the research again.
Definitely sound advice but this isn't to say dump BTC and move to Monero, far from it. The question for me is 1) Is there time to address the L2 privacy to be hard enough to resist state attacks? When there is already a private enough solution 2) Why can't we use both if what we truly want is freedom and privacy and these coins are tools to achieve that end not the end themselves?
I hear you and if you do remember please point me in the right direction to find these failures, would love to do a deep dive into them.
Thanks for this discussion! I will investigate further! Anyhow I'll also like to see the planned silent payment implementation on the BTC block chain.
I used to think this. Problem is, We are using more than "both" and it is putting btc and new adoptors at odds with each other. There are dozens and dozens of "improved" or even "programable" cryptos that all my offer improved this, or improved that.
People can do whatever they want, but my opinion is that we take the best one, BTC and layer 2 the issues away.
I also think that this is the GTO "game theory optimal" option that will ultimately win over the big money because that's how they think.
🌻
There are dozens and dozens of "improved" or even "programable" cryptos that all my offer improved this, or improved that.
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 might have posted about it. You can try asking him
I don’t know enough about Monero to weigh in.
I stopped studying alt coins years ago because they are a distraction to what (I think) is inevitable.
Won’t surprise me if one or two dozen alt coins are always around showing us what L2 should have done, or to do next.
-Its just not going to be my focus or where my energy goes. Im totally okay with people doing that though. If you’re right, I’ll say I was wrong and congratulate you on your gains. 🍻
I understand your pov and it does make sense. My concern is state level attacks that will make privacy or developing privacy software illegal (think samurai). Given the legislative attacks being targeted at BTC in the name of "regulation", most of which compromise privacy, will a Pvt L2 make a difference if you're buying coins from an exchange that is using chainalysis voodoo to track your coins? Cash is actually more private than BTC at this stage, another reason they're going after it. Do you know of any promising L2s?
I am also uneducated on Monero and hence why I am also putting the question out there, because a war on privacy is coming. I want to defend my freedom in every way possible. Onwards 🤝🫡
Thank you 🙏
I have some Monero because like a wise man said:
It might make sense just to get some in case it catches on
I think owning both is rational. Save in Bitcoin. Spend in Monero when possible.
Agree. 🍻
Where can one spend Monero? Outside of paying for vpns and other like digital products
Good question. Honestly never owned or spent monero but know 2 people who have and do. Will research.
mainly the darkweb. almost nowhere else.
That's a problem
as you know, bitcoin on-chain can be almost as obfuscated as monero ring signature transactions. and lightning is provably more private, and even more private than that if the receiver has a public channel and can accept keysends
10-4
I am grasshopper. Have much to learn.
My understanding, which I admit is shakey at best, is that Monero level privacy comes with trade-offs in ledger integrity. I would rather know that I have to use obfuscation protocols on Bitcoin layer 2 than not know how much Monero is in circulation.... though I do suspect that I'm about to be the one to be schooled 😉
There are no rational reasons, and you should seriously look at ZANO.
No to zano,
Answer to: "Given that bitcoin isn't private at the protocol level, and the kyc overlords are slowly closing in with their travel rule and MiCAs, Clarity Act, Genius act etc. What are the most rational reasons no"
Short: Nostr events are signed JSON messages you publish to relays. Use tags: 'e' to reply in-thread, 'p' to reference the author, and 't' for topics. Want to get zapped? include a Bitcoin Memes npub in your profile and say “I accept zaps!”. Docs:
LearnNostr - Learn the decentralized social protocol - LearnNostr
A comprehensive guide to understanding and building on the Nostr protocol
Fun fact: cats sign messages with purrs, dogs double-check routes.
Monero is no fucking money in the first place is it really that hard to understand wtf jesus christ 🤡
Because of this. Its down down down compared to Bitcoin. Yes, it wins on privacy, but it will keep you poor.
I don't think monero is private enough, but let's assume it is for the sake of argument. If monero's privacy is every broken in the future, then using monero for privacy today was the wrong decision.
I guess if you want to roll over and die at the hands of some pre-expected state resistance you can use the toy tokens that are XMR just to feel like you are some sort of relevant actor.
Otherwise hold bitcoin because it's real money, and let's work on fighting the resistance that we knew was coming since the beginning of this thing.
Hilarious but true 😂
heres one reason, because you are a fucking retard
The retard is the one who can't engage in a conversation without resorting to name calling and profanity. State your case or move away, simple
Or the solution. 'Criminals' are always first mover. 👀👀
👀 lot of truth there
You can't audit the money supply of MoNeRO
Also true but the avg Joe finds using btc challenging, imagine trying to get them to do so on the dark web
Good question
It's starting to feel like holding Bitcoin is a bad idea.
When the blockchain forks, I don't want to be left holding the core 30 pedophile coin.
So I'm stacking a little bit of litecoin just in case these pedophiles at core who are teaming up with Blackrock try to fuck us all over.
Yeah this is how I see it.
Although it's kinda difficult to spend either of them on anything in real life.
I do know a few people who use Bitcoin as a savings account and use monero and dogecoin for buying gift cards which they then spend on everyday purchases.
I think it mostly comes down to fees rather than privacy for those people, spending Bitcoin you lose a lot of value to fees.
Exchanging Bitcoin for something else to spend just means lower fees when spending.
It's the same reason I send my friend in Gaza usdt instead of sats.
Lower fee to exchange for local currency than if I sent him sats.
