Replies (100)
Not really in my family or friends. A lot have more than 2 childs and that is awesome 💜
One of the best non bitcoin points was when you said a boy becomes a man when he becomes a father. My heart absolutely goes out to the families that want kids but can’t have them so that’s important to caveat. But to dismiss kids and family is missing out on one of the absolute greatest joys and wonders in life. There’s nothing that matters more in the end
🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
Conversations are pointless.
1. You talk to people who are unrelatable, or don't know anything you're talking about.
2. You talk to someone who knows what you're talking about but it becomes redundant because it eventually becomes a preaching to the choir.
3. The conversation eventually ends.
Yes more specifically I think all adults without children are still children themselves.
The Child is father of the Man
Just like sex is a privilege, not a right.
Exactly
Yes.
Children are the meaning of life for
@HODL. But not everyone.
Sci-fi: Are you sure about that?
Serious question. Do you think I’m somehow unique in this regard? Or is my experience a shared human experience across all cultures and timescales.
Wut
Loser women also don’t get picked.
For marriage. For sex they absolutely do.
You know those transhumanism concepts floating around these days. Shows like West World visualize a future where our likeness can be measured and quantified to essentially create clones and live forever. No children are necessary those cases. Sorry. Don’t waste your time with nonsense like this. GM dog
lol
Children & family are the meaning of life - there is no future/life without them.
Having said that, not everyone will have children of their own - some can’t, some never marry (priests, monks, nuns, spinster aunts, uncle equivalent) - but they still support family, children, and pro-natalist society. I know tons of those people.
What is frightening are the people who are actively anti-natalist/family/children. I think that is a more recent societal ill.
Let those people die off childless, and let the rest of us keep the population going.
Given the pick up of open individualism, we can assume antinatalism will decline accordingly.
Having no children by choice is antinatalism in effect. Those who try to reason themselves out of this try the "misery and suffering that life enacts" logical axiom. This axiom is rooted in closed individualism, the common/default view.
Open individualism eludes this logical trap.
I’ve been witnessing just this the last 20 years or so. Small niches of families with 4-6 kids, whose grandkids will outnumber large numbers of their contemporaries grand kids.
It gives me hope.
truth
Children all change your perspective on earth 🌍
This is very accurate
It’s living for someone else instead of yourself.
My life is infinitely better with children, I only have three so far, more would be even better. Everyday they suprise you with their imagination and interesting way of looking at the world.
Life is the purpose of life. Let’s keep it goin
True, there is much less meaning in life. You also learn and grow so much as a person when you have kids. Some people will never experience this. In my case I think I would stayed a child forever without kids.
it’s A purpose, certainly not THE purpose for our existence. but your kids are lucky to have a dad with such conviction on the matter
I came to the same conclusion. So, instead, I tend to ask: “How do you spend your free time?”
It sparks much more interesting conversations, and makes it easier to relate and connect to people!
Most of these replies focus on the "children" part of your post. I think the "family" end can provide ample meaning in life as well. My wife and I do not have children. That was a choice we made for many solid reasons, and I would not change it. However, I am surrounded by friends/ coworkers/ / siblings that have children and I absolutely see how their lives have more meaning... at times I envy that.
However, although we have no children, we have taken care of my wife's father at the end of his life, and that was a deeply meaningful experience. We plan on moving halfway across the US in a couple years to do the same for her mother, then again for my parents (all in different states). We can only do this because we don't have children, but we seek to serve the elderly in our family. It brings meaning to my life. Sure, different than children, but meaning non the less.
Hard disagree on this. But each to his own.
Not all people are meant to have kids.
Some have made the entire meaning of their life on things which have profoundly impacted the world we live in and that we benefit from.
These people decided to not have children perhaps over something more meaningful to them.
Examples: Nikola Tesla, Isaac Newton, Marie Curie did not have children.
Did Satoshi have children? Maybe not?
I agree with you that having children is the most beautiful thing and is life changing (but that’s just an opinion!)
To each their own on the decision to have children and to each their own to believe what brings meaning to their own life.
Not arguing, you're allowed to not have children and be happy about it, but want to point out you totally can move across the country and take care of family when you have children. I literally did it this year, took my oldest son and drove cross county to take care of my father who got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Then a week later my wife and other children came.
What were the solid reasons to not have children?
You disagree that having children is the most meaningful thing for 99% of people?
I took care of both my parents as they were dying while having children simultaneously. Probably the hardest period of my life, but as an only child it was my cross to bare.
one possible counterargument:
"It's why we are still here."
Yeah. I'm an idealist and I think think the meaning/purpose of life is the same for everyone; enlightenment.
I think there shouldn't be.
And seen from different angles we can get different reasons.
* Not having children because life is increasingly difficult in the fiduciary world.
* If you are a Bitcoiner the first one shouldn't be an option.
"family is the most important thing we can have" and that phrase has more weight when we start our own family.
these are two things:
1.
Since we're here, let's make the best of it.
and
2.
meaning of life
same as: Why does matter exist?
imho:
no clue,
but for sure not in order to have children.
You only understand what love is when you have children
Changes you
You understand the meaning of life and why we're here
Have kids, he's right
IMHO it’s a good default. Most people are going to have pretty pointless lives, particularly under a fiat regime, and having kids lets you grow, change, and extend yourself in ways that are impossible without kids. It allows you to find purpose in a life that would be devoid of it otherwise. Very few get a chance to do something ‘big’ in the world (and contemporary ‘success’ is not that; doing something that will be remembered in history is IMHO).
I just honestly want to hear from a bunch of people at the end of their lives who don’t have any kids tell me that was the right call. I feel pretty confident 9 out of 10 will say no. Seems kinda retarded to think non-blood related people will give a shit about you when you are in the process of dying.
"Good default" seems right.
I don't think 9 out of 10 people without kids would say no, but i think if people with kids hadn't had kids, that would raise it to 9 out of 10.
Our purpose is survival and reproduction. (pass my genes)
Everything else lies under common imagination of the human kind.
You should ask this question to our btc gigachad, Mr. saylor himself
Agree, it’s a lot of hard work and sometimes stressful because you’re afraid you might screw something up or you’re not giving them enough opportunities in the life to be a successful adult. Kind of sounds like a job but it’s a job with meaning and purpose.
Does acting like a kid count? Asking for a friend 😇
Agreed 👍
Marie Curie had two children, one of whom also won a Nobel Prize.
People who make strong statements on topics like parenting, abortion, immigration, or LGBTQ+ issues often display the opposite qualities they claim to value. Such opinions can reveal a narrow and closed mindset with little curiosity to understand differing perspectives. Since these are complex issues, a more thoughtful approach is to respect others' choices without being dismissive.
🫶 🥕 🐇 🥗
The meaning of life is the expansion & growth of our consciousness.
Few things have the potential for expansion than co-creating another human.
Which can be done with and without children. Its amazing bitcoineres can have such closed minds. I agree more babies would be ideal but literally not everyone is in a position to do so for countless reasons. Also, GOD did not put everyone here to have babies, thats obvious. GODs plans are bigger then them and I see it as almost blasphemous to make remarks about not being able to find meaning in life without children. The meaning of life is to experience for GOD. Whatever that experience may be. There is nothing that is not GOD
Ill tell you I have no idea if I would have gotten more from life with children because I never had any so how can one say that. But ill add I was never against having children and was 100% open to the idea. My blessings in this life have so far been things other than a partner/kids. Not up to me to say if that ever changes.
My wife deals with some tough anxiety issues, especially around taking care of pets, food prep, etc. So that was one thing that made us reluctant.
We also spent years working as leaders at an at-risk youth program. We met some parents who definitely were the reason their kids were struggling, but we also met really good parents who were dealt an incredibly rough hand. I think that put us off the idea of kids, just knowing that you could get a life-wrecking experience even if you did everything right.
I'll be honest, I do wish I had children sometimes. My niece is an incredible source of joy in my life, and I can't imagine how much greater that joy would be if I had a child of my own.
But, we are in our late forties, and that window has passed us by. I try to find other ways to be of service to others to find that meaning. Isn't that the real reason kids are so amazing? Being presented with a ton of motivation to give of yourself on their behalf... having something more important than yourself? I have to find that in other ways. It's tough, but doable.
I agree, it does have more weight if you start your own family. But not everyone takes that route, and that is okay too. Not every person has the same path to meaning. I think the important thing is that as someone without children, I recognize and honor those who do, as they are doing something beautiful. It wasn't my path, but I support it. I'm not one of those idiot DINKs on social media trying to brag about how smart and free I am for not having kids. Those people are truly childish.
Good on you both for doing that. You know why it is important.
I was not saying kids and caring are incompatible. I was saying that we have been able to fill a role that not only helps our parents, but also eases the burden on my siblings. Kids were not part of my life trajectory, but family has still been a source of deep meaning.
Bitcoiners are fallible humans.
I like that we express our beliefs strongly even though it upsets people.
I largely agree with you.
Remember to take nothing personally.
True True. Its different when the variety of thought is ridiculed vs understood. Ive mostly exp'ed the former on social media but I havent spent much time on NOSTR yet.
God literally did put everyone here to have babies bro bro
Genesis 1:28.
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
Agreed, last year was the hardest year of my life with all of that, but no one said life was supposed to easy. I'm glad my dad was able to see all his grandchildren before he died.
I suppose someone could say im doing the ridiculing here by saying its amazing people are not more open-minded *shrug* lol
bro bro. srsly. I understand your position now lol
I dont do the Bible. I just do GOD
Great post. I have four children and a wife I love. They are my everything.
Hilarious. Just now realizing you as AmericanHODL.
I didnt recognize you as just HODL but did the profile pic.
Nice to meet you friend
That’s like saying you don’t get in the water but you swim
🥹
The day my son was born my entire life changed. I would move heaven and earth for that boy. I would stop a speeding train to see him thrive.
If people are dying, nothing matters.
They can have fun exiting the gene pool
If you don’t procreate you and your line dies. end of story
HODL, I am not happy with my response to you. I was leaving for work and only had time for a few sentences to challenge.
I wish I would've said that I "wonder" about your assertion about having kids.
I'm a father of two sons, 25 and 15, and a 12 year old daughter. We homeschool. I love my family. I wouldn't trade fatherhood for anything.
Yet these lines by Rilke keep coming up for me:
###
"Sometimes a man stands up during supper
and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking,
because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.
"And his children say blessings on him as if he were dead.
"And another man, who remains inside his own house,
stays there, inside the dishes and in the glasses,
so that his children have to go far out into the world
toward that same church, which he forgot."
###
I hear Rilke saying there's something more than the kids. I don't have an answer to what it is. The feeling arises sometimes though.
Anyway, I enjoy your appearances on Mailbag Mondays! Bitcoin has made life brighter for my family. Thank you for the work that you're doing in the space. -- Curt
Thank you for your opinion. Now I ask you. If you don't have children, where will your offspring go and where will all the money you have accumulated with great effort during your journey through life go? Children are our way of contributing to tomorrow and the future, and we must work on that basis.
It’s easy to say that in your 20 and 30s when you’re healthy and able and your friends are around. As they age they will realize everyone has families and that’s when it will hit them
I'm not sure where anything I have will go in the future. I have to think about that.
It sounds like you believe children are the only way to contribute forward. Is that the case? Why is money moving forward the only aspect you bring up? Plato, Davinci, Newton, Whitman, Poe... none had children, but wouldn't you agree that their contributions still echo through history? Tesla died penniless and never had a child, yet you are likely sitting in a building lit and heated by his legacy.
I'm not saying I am even close to the level of those people, but I do think there are plenty of other ways to use a life to be of service to others and contribute things that will last far beyond my years.
I don't think that having children is the only way to contribute to the future, it's just an undeniable fact that in the end that also contributes. And I understand your point of view, it's just that each one gives it a different perspective. I'll mention money only as an example, obviously who keeps your job and money is not the most important thing. But if we talk about that aspect, I would prefer that my assets remain in the hands of my children, than that they end up in other hands other than mine.
Fair enough. Keep up the good work of raising your kids.
Thank you 🙏🤠
It is honestly not an easy job, I am not an expert or anything similar, just like in bitcoin, another apprentice trying to advance (be a father).
But I can assure you 100% that every minute you spend on it is worth it. And believe me, I also had a time without children and where only I mattered.
The most wonderful and shocking and also inexplicable thing is that little by little you stop being that selfish person who only looks out for yourself, and you begin to prioritize not only your well-being but that of your children and your family! I hope one day you can also enjoy that wonderful stage of life. And thanks for the debate
I planted my seed. :-)
only until you learn certain things and realize others. my foundation is Christian up to and thru confirmation even tho I had serious issues with the church starting back in 7th grade. Using it as a book to guide your own personal life I'd never argue against. you do you. I'll have my relationship with GOD as it works for me. It's only ever gotten stronger, only faltering for a year or so after highschool. I'm closer to GOD now than Ive ever been. I trust and hope your relationship continues to strengthen too 🙂
officially, 👋👋
You can’t get to know God with any depth without reading the Bible. It sounds like you have read the Bible before or heard about what’s in it. I find it strange and incongruent to believe Jesus is who he said he was and not “do” the Bible. Far be it for me to tell you how to worship God, so do you, brother.
100%, having kids have changed every single priority I had - similar to Bitcoin.
lol so you are here telling me that I can't have the relationship with God that I do indeed have? think about that
If you had changed your linguistics to I do not believe it is possible to know God with any depth without reading the Bible ...... I would have been complete agreement with you as you would have left it be your opinion versus trying to state it as a truth
It is a truth unless God revealed himself to you like he did to Abraham and Moses. But for everyone else, we have to either read the Bible or be told about it in order to get to know God.
I’m telling you that you can’t have a meaningful relationship with anyone if you don’t know who they are. I’m talking about the God from the Bible, so maybe that’s the disconnect if what you mean by God is an abstract idea of a higher power.
do you not see GOD in nature daily? do you not see GOD in good Samaritan acts? do you not see GOD in laughing children? do you not see GOD in your own life when anything even close to miraculous happens?
right. I talk to GOD daily. Ive never had a better relationship since realizing it doesn't have to be how someone else says. it's doesn't have to be some restricted thing. love for GOD can be just that. love for GOD which is all there is
I have read the bible before. I've read most the new testament and all the shorter books of old but back when I was 10-12
Thats a long fucking way to say women should be property
Think so? I don't know if I would go that far. That's me though.
I'm a father of three. Yet I understand why people don't want to have children. I was dead set against having children until I turned 35.
We are creating an unsustainable future for our children and grandchildren on so many levels.
I think we all feel it on some level. Only some people are willing to admit it though. They don't want to be called antihuman.
Yet humans, like any other animal, need habitat to live.
Seems like our goal should be to preserve and create as much livable habitat as we can for nonhumans.
Then people will want to bring children into the world.
I'm not going to generalize.
