Replies (74)
pension experience? with that hair?!
That hair didn't come cheap either 😂
This is almost identical to what we've just been through unfortunately I can't touch my work pension for another couple of years. I just hope I get it.
Good luck 🤞
When Barclays froze my account because they saw me buying Bitcoin, I treated the conversation as if they were about to go bankrupt.
I offered to bail them out and started wind up procedure against them. They quickly opened up my account again.
Unfortunately, my wife is less confrontational, so played the normal game, thus it took a lot longer and was more hassle.
Can you please elaborate? You offered to bail them out and started wind up procedure?!
GMHappy Satsurday. I converted my 401k(retirement account) same as your wife. Luckily did not have any hassles. Basically it treaded water with inflation the whole time. I thought it increased in value until I learned about bitcoin and purchasing power debasement with money printing. A penny saved became a Sat earned!🤝
Yeah I’ve not heard of a wind up procedure either
So I offered to lend them money if they were going bankrupt.
They refused and so in the UK creditors are legally allowed to issue a "wind up" order forcing the company into bankruptcy if they fail to pay the creditor within a reasonable time.
This is the UK government information on it:
GOV.UK
Wind up a company that owes you money
How to issue a winding up petition - forms and fees to wind up a company to recover any money you
You did the right thing.
Are you legally considered a creditor though? That's the crux of the matter. From a monetary perspective 100%, but from a legal perspective, aren't you just considered a client?
Potentially for Barclays, yes, but for the Pension company no.
That's not really the point tho, having a wind up ordered issued is enough to start a bank run / pension run on a company.
Simply having this in place could be disastrous for a company, they will normally do anything to avoid it if at all possible.
This is so funny! Hats off to you.
I totally agree with your methods and I understand the logic behind them. I was just wondering wether the company could just brush it off
It's very common in business.
There was a famous case where somebody placed a winding up order on to the BBC. Nobody noticed. It nearly went through ending the 100 year life of the institution 😂
The company would simply pay the outstanding amount to the creditor to make it go away automatically.
If it's a significant amount, it's a very common way to recover funds.
Madness. The idea of this sense of unfairness at scale is very troubling
I would be so pissed off
And you guys are in a small minority that understand Bitcoin and can start to make back some of those gains
Pension is a scam
It's ironic that even Boomers cannot get their pension and it's all a scam. I saw that they even now make it compulsory for employees to save into a pension. When will the madness end!?
Ironically, if they'd paid out when they were supposed to, Bitcoin was around $83K.
We are loosing more gains by putting it in at $103K
They should stop this Ponzi scheme now
State pension is the definition of a ponzi btw.
Just wrote almost the same 😂😂😂
This is the full interview on YouTube:
Mike the lawfare warrior.
Barclays, get outta Mike’s way!
When someone actually “runs the numbers”
True
Things are so bleak for youngsters in the UK. There are so many better opportunities outside. Low wages, bad weather, terrible and expensive housing, crime, wokeness, council upkeep of streets and public spaces awful.. I find it hard to know why anyone would stay !?
By raising the retirement age, they have effectively cancelled it anyway for those who don't self euthanasia throw "flu jabs".
If you like Cricket, the Oval is pretty cool 😂
😂 since Gooch and Shane era, it's hard to follow now.
I know nothing about Cricket, but my mum worked at the Oval as a secretary before I was born.
WHAT?! Gotto look into that. Thanks.
Btw. Are you going to attend bitcoin beach retreat in north Wales this summer?
I haven't heard about it, just looking at it now.
It's near our wedding anniversary, so the wife will have to be onboard 😂
My old postie told him they took half his dads pension when it came to retirement, I can't remember the specifics but it's certainly one hell of a scam they have going.
The scandal on my fathers side of the family, was my grandfather had half his Navy pension taken away as he was medically discharged 12 days before he was due to finish his term of service.
My grandfather lived with that grudge for the rest of his life.
I don't blame him for that. Outright theft has been normalised to the point where all people do is throw their hands up in exasperation and do nothing about it.
lol I’ve heard this a few times and I believe it, same with the states and social security it’s unsustainable
Also the U.K. state pension legally isn’t a pension, it’s a benefit. They’re not obligated to pay you shit out of that Ponzi scheme, so even better that you’re forced to pay into it
A lot of people think your paying into your future state pension.
You're not, you're paying the people that are already retired, as soon as you pay it, it's gone out again.
A bit like the Bitcoin Steak n Shake are accepting for payment, as soon as they receive it, it's converted into shitty fiat.
See, that's what you get for having significant amounts. I've never had that problem myself 😂
We're all getting significant amounts come the halving 😂
woah
I pay into a pension. I might pause it for 1 year putting what I would pay into Bitcoin as a test - i know 4 years would be best to match the cycles.
Also, we are in a bullrun year, you might want to buy Bitcoin during a dip year as well.
A major mistake people make is leaving the money they pay into a pension to be managed by someone else. For those Bitcoiners in the UK who already have money in a pension the best option is to use it to buy actual Bitcoin (and self-custody it). At least that way your pension is held in the best-performing asset.
At retirement age, whether to drawdown all in a single lump-sum or over time as an income would depend on personal circumstances and preferences. One major advantage of pensions currently is that gains are free from capital gains tax (at least for now, I would not be surprised if the gov changed that). For this reason I imagine drawing down as needed would be the better option rather than taking it all as a lump sum, incurring income tax, then having capital gains due on any Bitcoin you bought with it. Just let the Bitcoin appreciate without capital gains, then take out whatever each year, maximising your annual personal allowance and possibly avoiding higher income tax brackets.
As far as paying more into a pension post-orange-pilling, as you say, stacking self-sovereign sats seems like a better option. However, this is often complicated slightly by the fact you'd typically lose out on the employer contribution if you don't make contributions of your own.
Agreed, except the “free of CGT”, the payout was taxed at source at 24% CGT, that was a significant reason the pension didn’t perform.
Tax free pensions, refer to the input, not the output tax.
Be very careful of this, Pensions are NOT tax free.
In the UK at least you may get tax reductions for paying in but, as you say, when drawing down your pension it is all subject to income tax (except the 25% tax-free lump sum, up to a limit of £268,275).
Gains in most pensions are free from CGT though:
> The disposal of an investment held for the purposes of a registered pension scheme is not a chargeable gain. It is therefore exempt from capital gains tax.
There are some exemptions for atypical situations, such as overseas pensions schemes, which may explain having to pay CGT.
CG67650 - Pension Schemes: disposal of an asset - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK
I'm not going to declare the actual numbers, but this is the actual reality.
My wife contributed £0.45p
The employer contributed £0.45p
At maturity, after 25 years, the pension pot was £1
After tax, we received £0.76p
The amount was not even close to £268,275.
Pension pot: £1
25% tax-free lump sum: £0.25
Higher income tax of 40% on remaining £0.75: £0.30
Pension pot after income tax: £0.25 + £0.75 - £0.30 = £0.70
Effective tax rate: 30%
This would be reduced a bit if taking into account personal allowance. For example if the pension pot was £100k and the personal allowance £12,500 the effective tax rate would be 25%.
Thanks, that clears it up 🫡
Pensions by governments and large employers are largely just fraud to convince workers to accept lower salaries now in exchange for the promise of a higher future payout … which they then underfund and rug you
Or just use as their petit cash pot in the case of Robert Maxwell 😂
I have a sipp but it's invested entirely in #mstr. I think this is the best option. I'm either going to be broke or very rich. I haven't contributed any further money since about 3 years ago when I went self employed.
Yes, the pension options emerging now are much greater than 25 years ago.
For me the main purpose of a pension is to stop you spending your money too quickly.
As Bitcoiners, we are mostly disciplined to do this.
I've got 12 years until I can take the pension. If mstr continues it'll be the biggest pension in the world 😂
Straight out of Mandibles, when the professor finally received his severance from the university after delays of several years
In Australia we are able to claim our superannuation funds that have been automatically deducted from our Fiat pay checks each week.
We transfer our balance to a SELF MANAGED SUPER FUND, then purchase BTC. The process is still easy and fast.
Great post sharing the reality and new mindset in regards to savings plans.
Well done 👍🏻
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Stumbled across this interesting thread reg pensions in the UK. I'm 45, I suspect I'll never see a state pension. If I do, I'd have to work beyond 70. And there are women in the UK campaigning for the right to retire at 60.
So they expect me to work for the next 25+ years to pay them to sit on their arses when I'll likely never be afforded the same degenerate luxury.
So many leaches.
Instead, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.
mike
GM
Some pension experience for the younger plebs thinking of starting a private pension.
My wife started a private pension 25 years ago. She paid in a fixed monthly amount matched by her employer.
After 25 years it matured, my wife was given the option to re-invest, but being Bitcoiners, we decided to cash out to become self sovereign.
If we include the matched employer contributions, the pension has lost money. However on just my wife’s contribution, it has made, after 24% capital gains tax, about 60% gain in total.
However, as inflation has caused at least 50% loss of value over 25 years, then in absolute terms it has lost money.
Next, pension companies, like banks don’t like giving you your money. Despite the payout date being the 15th April, we only received the money after a lot of hassle and threats of issuing a wind up order to the company.
We received the money in the bank yesterday.
What seemed like a significant amount of money to my wife when she started the pension has turned into a relatively insignificant payout today. We are putting two thirds of the payout into Bitcoin and will be using the remainder to pay bills and for my wife to treat herself to a spa day or something similar.
This is the reality of the fiat world.
View quoted note →
There was a bitcoin SIPP product available 7 years ago in the UK. Allowed the usual tax free gains and company contributions. It has done rather well over 7 years...
For me this experience has highlighted how important it is to not let any third party have any control of your money or life.
GM
Some pension experience for the younger plebs thinking of starting a private pension.
My wife started a private pension 25 years ago. She paid in a fixed monthly amount matched by her employer.
After 25 years it matured, my wife was given the option to re-invest, but being Bitcoiners, we decided to cash out to become self sovereign.
If we include the matched employer contributions, the pension has lost money. However on just my wife’s contribution, it has made, after 24% capital gains tax, about 60% gain in total.
However, as inflation has caused at least 50% loss of value over 25 years, then in absolute terms it has lost money.
Next, pension companies, like banks don’t like giving you your money. Despite the payout date being the 15th April, we only received the money after a lot of hassle and threats of issuing a wind up order to the company.
We received the money in the bank yesterday.
What seemed like a significant amount of money to my wife when she started the pension has turned into a relatively insignificant payout today. We are putting two thirds of the payout into Bitcoin and will be using the remainder to pay bills and for my wife to treat herself to a spa day or something similar.
This is the reality of the fiat world.
Here in Luxembourg you have no choice but to subscribe to what is called CCSS, which translate to Social Security Community Center. It can take up to 30% of your salary -- Tax are not paid yet. It serve as your health and pension funds.
I'm subscribing knowing my pension will be worthless, I'm 35.
I find it very difficult to feel sympathy for you 😂
Yeah, it’s the fiat capital of Europe. Real Estate is inflated like nowhere else.
Don’t fall for these numbers though, people are struggling even in the richer country. Especially the young.
If a company owes you £750 or more you can start the wind up procedure. I know a few who have used this. It gets messy when the company in question actually opts for bankruptcy. That’s when you’re likely to lose your money or only recoup a fraction.
Yes, I can believe that.
Well, if they'd rather go bankrupt than giving you your money you were very unlikely to get in the first place, no?
Not always - some stay afloat and this approach is a legal kick up the arse to get them to pay up. And once you’ve tied your creditor status within a legal framework you’re prioritised if they do go bankrupt. Somewhat unrelated but I once officially became a creditor when an online company folded just after I ordered an item from them - was very interesting to be involved in the wind up process.
This happened, my wife very much wants to do this:
View quoted note →I'm not saying how much Bitcoin I'm buying, but no 😂
We are moving my wife's pension into Bitcoin as per this:
View quoted note →I just transferred the last of my wife's pension into Bitcoin today. The entry price ranged from $72K to $107K since transferring started in April.
I'm already up more in the last 3 months than the pension fund managed in 25 years 😂
View quoted note →
