God I hate credit cards so fucking much
This is why I work on nodeless and btcpayserver
I want this whole paradigm to die
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Replies (57)
What
The
Fuck
Yes $15 each, even if I win the dispute, I still pay the fee
$15 fee on a $9 charge back
I remember years ago winning one case. Was probably close to a decade.
But for at least the last 5yr I never even bothered to turn in info because it was pointless.
And ironically, they’ll suspend *you* if you get too many of them.
Chargeback are a pain in the neck.
Their claim to be focused on all segments but make no mistake their target customers are enterprises large enough, with access to credit, to have a line item for fraud.
They probably have a cute name for the fraud in their value prop statements
As your neighbor downstairs who has a banking account over there … it baffles my mind how your banking system “works” … dealing with anything is a nightmare …
⚡
If only there was another way. 😕
Chargebacks are theoretically possible here in Thailand, but one rarely sees it, it's like a mythical creature.
🤢🤮
That is literal aids. CC fraud is rampant. T-Mobile literally removed CC as an option for autopay. I guess they want to reduce cc fees lol. Debit card or checking account if you want autopay discount. Nothing like trusting a company with history of horrible security with those details. Whole system needs to burn and die.
Such a failure of a payment method.
Maybe it’s good for the spender?
Account numbers listed on the device that can be read by anyone. Now these numbers broadcast to any skimmer that comes within reach. Anyone at any time can pull a transaction from your account.
Surely it’s good for the merchant?
3% and up fees. Takes a month or two to receive payments. The dreaded charge backs.
Who is it good for?
Oh yeah, them..
Insufficient funds fee, late payment fee. Interest on balances. Compounding interest. Variable interest rates. Interest rates ramp up for late payments.
I’m amazed how boomers got duped into falling for these things long enough for them to entrench such a foothold in society. No other product is this broken and yet nearly everyone uses them.
Bitcoin, hurry up and squash the banks.
What are those disputes?
I had a related idea on how people can use ecash as if they we're gift cards
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Who knows. Maybe in the future you could use ecash as your credit card.
*as if they were
Credit has counterparty risk, always. Money proper doesn't have this risk. Everything digital is credit, except proof-of-work. Except #bitcoin
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dergigi.com
Bitcoin Is the Rediscovery of Money | dergigi.com
We forgot what money is. Bitcoin makes us remember.
For in-person payments, the bolt card system gives the merchant instant final settlement ✨
this looks terrible :-(
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Wow!!! That's line a 5 dollar profit dude!!! Keep doing it again and again and again....
Not!!! 😆 🤣 😂
My friend at privacydevil.com has been trying in vain since 2013 to get y'all to buy in Bitcoin but most of us are lousy at spending in BTC. To date he's just made 60 usd in sales in BTC. Go figure. 60 bucks over a decade. What a joke! We need to get our shit together.
Exactly! My friend over at privacydevil.com got suspended, had other merchant accounts shut down, bank accounts shut down etc. But here's the run: he's been accepting Bitcoin since 2013 and how much did we all spend with him over a decade of accepting BTC? 60 BUCKS worth 😆 🤣 😂 well done! Peer 2 peer cash My behind!!! We need to up our game.
Yet we don't support Bitcoin merchants. My friend that owns Privacydevil.com was accepting Bitcoin since 2013? 60 bucks of sales over a decade. He then started zolango.com to allow people to sell their items for Bitcoin. It died due to lack of sales (nobody spending Bitcoin) and no VC funded it (marketing costs are insane for platforms). He wrote to many many VCs and prominent Bitcoiners, did anyone listen? No! TF are we all doing? Peer 2 Peer cash my ass, we are all too busy with the "Pura Vida bro" bullshit.
@npub1sg6p...f63m
Stripe appears to be the problem here.
Fucking madness
Sorry to hear about that, but there is no « WE ».
Is he giving a significant discount for Bitcoin payment? On one side merchants complains that they pay fee and get charge back with cards but on the other give no discount or even use third party for Bitcoin payments that charge 1-2% on user + have horrible exchange rate.
When I get no fee and no margin on exchange rate I always pay in BTC, but I still loose as I have fee for buying BTC and miss on 1% cashback on my card. 3 to 5% discount should motivate most people with bitcoins to pay in BTC.
Also lose every single time with Square after I provide signed contracts and delivered services. They dispute saying they have no knowledge of the company/transaction. 😖
10% discount for paying in BTC. At one point it was even 20% but never any takers. And it's not like they didn't advertise, they were all over YouTube in 2017. Nobody bought using Bitcoin.
Of all the payment processors I've used, stripe has been the best to work with, but I haven't won a single dispute with them. I used to win disputes all the time with other payment processors.
I believe there is a collective conscious of Bitcoiners. I know I'm sounding a bit like an Avatar movie but I truly hope and believe so....
Well it says something of your character not just to complain, but to take action. Thank you!
but how will consumers be protected?!?
I wanna know too. It’s harder to win a chargeback against a software company. Easier to argue that a merchant failed to meet their obligations for in-person retail or eCommerce transactions than a subscription to a piece of software. I’m curious what standing the customer has in this case.
Not saying OP is in the wrong here at all. I work for a software company that gets hosed on chargebacks too. The CC companies make money either way and have the nerve to blame the merchant for not preventing the fraud.
Source: 10 years in eCommerce product management
By self-custody, vetting their vendors, and taking responsibility.
Some people are making business out of automating charge backs for cc users.
Dire need for different payment methods.
Chargebacks and Refunds
I, too, think the post requires more context.
I mean I am entirely unfamiliar with the concept. We rarely use credit cards where I am from and most of our payments are done via debit cards (or cash) and our regular payments are usually done via a repeat pay order with a specific code.
From what I could gather this is related to subscribing to a service with a credit (or possibly a debit) card and then having a dispute over whether may the service provider continue to charge you or not.
Is my assessment correct?
If so it doesn't surprise me. From what I know. the american payment environment is quite ridiculous to pretty much all europeans (and I'd suspect elsewhere too) I mean giving your card to a waitress who takes it out of your sight, pqper checks, actually signing something when you pay with a card etc. It's just wild.
They are all 100% stolen credit cards being used on my website.
Let me check if I understand it correctly.
A guy with a stolen credit card uses a merchant who uses your service to order some goods. The stolen credit card gets charged and money is successfully transferred to your account. You then send an equivalent amount in btc to the merchants wallet. Then you are being hit with a dispute due to the card being stolen and you having to foot the bill for the CC thief who walks away with the goods that you in essence paid for?
Did I get it right?
Except that it wasn’t stolen
🍌
Yup. I suffer as the merchant, the theif, the bank and the card profit
Yeah this is exactly how people abuse my company too. Stolen credit cards used to take out subscriptions. The resulting bogus accounts with a stolen subscription are then sold off for pennies on the dollar. It’s a numbers game for these scammers but any money they make is pure profit. When the cardholder catches on, they charge back. Then we get the blame for not knowing that the transaction was fraudulent. Absolute 🐄 💩
The privacy devil site doesn't mention #Bitcoin even once and is selling wholesale products. To see the list of products or prices, one has to fill a form. I'm not surprised, nobody's throwing their #sats at the shop.
I always choose Bitcoin payment if there's the option, even go extra mile to find such shop and know of many doing the same. Still, I wouldn't blame people who choose not to buy something and stack instead.
wholeheartedly agreed
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Hmm 🤔 why do many disputes?
Do you have an idea how companies like Amazon or Apple (or you know any other big corps deal with this? I doubt they just foot the bill. Do they get some kind of an insurance? Is there a possible legal action perhaps?
I lost my cc yesterday. Returned to the scene and nobody saw/found anything. 🤬
Locked it, but now have to report as lost and replace the info __everywhere__. Uggh!
It’s just considered a cost of doing business as far as I’m aware. In fact if the percent of transactions that are charged back against the merchant become too high, they are liable to be blocked by payment processors as too risky to process payments for. Which is wild, because again, it’s the merchant that foots the bill for all this.
wtf is responsibility?
Bitcoin fixes this
Are these all people just trying to scam you out of paying?
Fiat cards must die
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I have learned after much pain they can be an effective tool to swap around zero interest and leverage your time. Mostly of the 15 I use 14 are zero balance. This is key, never pay interest. That being said I too detest the current system, why " as soon as I charge 6k on my amex it hits my credit in a 2 days or less, if i pay it off it takes 30 days to hit my credit. Credit ratings agencies are a scam......
And the EU SEPA (a sort of inverse bank wire where you charge the user account) is a joke too: if the customer account is empty or locked, a dispute is opened and closed in the same instant, the seller lost it and have to pay a chargeback fee of ~$10, plus the Stripe % fee on the amount, and the original transaction is rolled back of course. All this automatically.
This happens also if the customer open manually the dispute.
There isn't any valuation by Stripe.