:(:( 😢😢😢

Even on a mk3 with dice rolls I don't think I'd sleep well.

Exactly, and well, maybe AI finds this with other wallets? Maybe we're never safe

darkest day i can remember in my time in bitcoin

100x more than that are gonna rage quit after getting rugged by the ColdLarp.

:(

🥹

I feel bad for them too, and I did not expect this to happen, but ive always viewed coldcard as a way to signal maximalism and less so as a way to hide that its a signing device. I remember thinking "less functionality for more money, no thanks" and hearing "aTtAcK sUrFaCe" and responding with "closed source" and letting them live their lives. Us multicoin bros could have this problem one day, I hope not, but using popular devices with published schematics and source code goes a long way toward preventing this sort of thing. I hope the lesson people take from this is, if you say "not your keys not your coins" but you use closed source signing devices, you're still trusting someone to secure your coins for you, the risk is just pushed into a different mechanism. Consider closed source wallets to be custodial.

not good

I remember when I was setting up my first ever wallet… almost everybody was advising NOT to use dice or coin method to generate entropy seeds. It was roughly 8/10 bitcoiners not recommending… But I wanted to understand it, with something so important… it wasn’t that hard to find the right guide and do it correctly… but imagine how many people were in the same place and just didn’t do it because it wasn’t “recommended” because the software and hardware was so trusted… and now some of those plebs are fucked 🤢 Tragic

Brutal

Is mk4 safe?

No

When you setup a new seed on cold card you have the option to enter your own random numbers to generate the seed. Using dice is one way to use offline randomization. This bug in cold card is because their random numbers weren't random enough

Roll dice 100 times gives you a 100 digit random number, which is better than 50 rolls for a 50 digit random number. Sort of like password length, longer is harder to break

Okay so I have a 100 digit number. What does that do exactly? I just input that into the coldcard??

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If you roll a D6 once, I have a 17% chance of guessing what you rolled. If you roll twice I have a 2.8% chance. Three times it's a 0.5% chance. Roll 100 times and it's 1/(6^100), which is very, very, very unlikely to be guessed.

No it’s 1 different number 100 times

Yes when you start fresh it has like a dice rolling wizard thing

It's wild that people said not to use dice rolls, wtf‽

It's got a wizard but you can do almost the entire thing manually yourself & then put that into your signing device. The only thing that's extremely hard to do manually is the last word as it's a check on the other 11 or 23 words.

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I did 150 rolls then it asked me if I wanted to add dice rolls. Is it retarded or am I just paranoid lol

Any. Cryptographic. Elements. Have. To. Be. Open. Sourced. Is 31337 examples of a fuckup not enough to understand that? A reminder that WHATSAP IS NOT OPEN SOURCE. In today's reality it's impossible to trust any closed-source software which includes cryptography. Period.

So let's say a 12 word mnemonic. The last word of the mnemonic is a checksum hash of the seed, which is the first 11 words (technically not entirely correct, some of the bytes in the last word are the checksum and some are part of the seed, but for understanding this you dont really need to know that, other than that this fact makes it easier to find the last word). A checksum is a number generated from data, that cannot be used to reverse engineer that date and can (almost) only get generated from the same exact data. Like a fingerprint of a document or something like that. You can't (feasibly) do the checksum on paper. So you have to generate the first 11 words and then try a bunch of words for the last word in your signer and eventually it will have a valid seed. Cheap dice... The less random the dice, the less secure the seed. But the wildly different, minor manufacturing defects combined with the unintentional randomness of how they are thrown make the dice sufficient for the most part. I personally use casino dice, but I'm also out of my gourd. Do you have to be this level of paranoid? No. But not being this level of paranoid just cost 500 bitcoin wallets just under 600 bitcoin. Your dice are probably fine. What will help you sleep at night is not buying the right dice, especially after this incident. What will help you sleep at night is understanding thermodynamics as it relates to randomness and cryptography. Go forth and try to google your way into understanding why this dice roll shit works and you'll feel better.

Yeah, thats the problem with stuff like this. People dont intuitively understand randomness, entropy, they get sloppy with the procedures, it takes too long, and they just want to yolo their life savings into shitcoins, who has time to care and learn?

Bro why are you sharing a http link to a client to show a nostr note, on nostr? Just quote the damn note. I'm looking at this in a nostr client right now, I don't want to open your fucking note in a web browser.

Hard to calculate manually (it's a checksum). When you put the first 11 or 23 words the hardware device will give you a number of suitable words to choose from. Use the dice to select one or just randomly choose one. People get super paranoid when selecting their random words. Cheap dice are fine

holy shit

agreed. if you wanna self custody, i think 2/3 multivendor, multisig is a minimum

Autistic former COLDCARD Mk4 and Q owner here. This RNG failure is absolutely catastrophic, and users did everything they were told was secure. But “autistic enough” is still a shitty way to say overly technical or paranoid. Autism isn’t the punchline here—Coinkite’s failure is.

"Sleep well" is exactly what Coinkite advertised.

Bitcoin doomed

It's a dark day for CoinKite. May they never recover. The arrogance they pushed their inferior product was unbearable.

Makes me feel sick that as a community we were led to paying for expensive crap at the expense of simple and secure options.

My B

@utxo the webmaster 🧑‍💻 the dice step costs one evening and then never again. we kept filing it under paranoid, and that is most of the reason so few people ever did it.

I moved mine to a sparrow seed for now, you reckon after upgrading the firmware AND rolling dice, that it would be ok to put the new seed in the coldcard? Problem is these people have been at the top of the food chain, i really do t k ow who to trust at this point anymore. I’m probably gonna keep my Q and just make my own dice roll seed

It turns out entropy doesn't forgive mistakes. Let's learn what dice rolling actually is.