Its an implemented attack vector, it's not about jpegs

The problem is the culture is deteriorating.

I'm trying to learn about it what I can, but even in my non-techy brain I grasp that yes, they're an attack on #btc because data requires space. The greater the data and need for space, the more the need to "improve/update" nodes to points where they'd become less affordable to run. This is my understanding within the limited confines of my knowledge.

Tick tock...

Now think about what evil people might upload, have fun validating snuff content and CP on your node. Definitly not going to be used to go after Node operators and or blackmail them

I think so too. And once people realize how valuable sats are they will be much less inclined to screw around and waste them. Like no one is making origami with $100 bills.

Me as a node runner (core version 27) invested in the hardware and my time to build and run it. In the white paper I can not see any indication that other data than transactions. Whenever I can, I'll keep to this. I also don't like the idea that possible shitty data is stored on my ssd which makes me personally vulnerable. I want to keep my house and garden clean as possible. And I repeat, treat the node runners well.

Just curious if you are running your own node or not. Have you actually tried doing IBD on your node in last 2 years before start commenting about JPEGs? You would have understood importance of filters in 2023 (when all of these shitcoinery on Bitcoin initially started) if you were running your own node. Maybe you should probably stick to giving your opinions about macros. I mean you can give an opinion on JPEGS but the more you comment about this stuff the more plebs will realize that you probably don't know anything node decentralization.

There is no reason why an attacker couldn't do that already. Consensus allows it. An attack like that would probably come from a govt because it would require law enforcement involvement to follow up on the threat. As soon as they get one node runner it would be obvious to everyone who the attacker is. The data could then be pruned before they could go after any significant number of node operators. No one is forced to store any data that is in op_return or witness if they don't want to.

Of course it would come from a government

Yeah and it would fail pretty hard while exposing the attacker. It's not really a credible argument for filters because it's already possible.

Hm 🤔

With every argument you keep proving to me that you fundamentally misunderstand what money is, despite having written an entire book on the subject. Bitcoin is not “just a ledger,” as you’ve claimed in the past. Bitcoin is a monetary good, a decentralized payment network, and a censorship-resistant currency all in one. It’s a full-stack monetary system, not a spreadsheet. From economics perspective, money emerges from the market as the most saleable good. Bitcoin fits this because it optimizes for scarcity, verifiability, and portability. Turning the blockchain into a dumpster for arbitrary data directly contradicts these foundational principles. It bloats the system, undermines its monetary utility, and creates financial friction for actual users. Bitcoin *is* the most spam-prone system in the world. That’s the price of having no centralized party to manage or steer usage. And that’s exactly why its culture has always been hostile toward non-monetary use of the blockchain. Every byte of nonsense stuffed into blocks competes with real monetary transactions, increasing fees *unnecessarily*, straining bandwidth, and degrading node accessibility. That is not neutrality, it is misallocation and *abuse*. This isn’t a technical debate, it’s an economic one. Austrian economics warns about malinvestment (capital being misallocated due to distorted incentives). JPEGs, tokens and other data on Bitcoin are a textbook examples of that. They waste block space, misalign incentives, and sabotage the very foundation that gives Bitcoin value: its usability as money and its decentralization. If you make it expensive or difficult to run a node, you centralize validation. Most miners don’t run full nodes or create their own block templates. They outsource that to a handful of mining pools, most of whom are already flirting with KYC and OFAC. You let guys like that dictate consensus and the 21M becomes meaningless. That’s how Bitcoin dies. Not with a bang, but with friction, complexity, creeping node centralization and ruined culture. Your current stance is pure cope. It betrays a deep ignorance of the very economic principles you claim to understand. Bitcoin is money. Everything that weakens its monetary properties weakens the entire value proposition. As a prominent influencer loved by many Bitcoiners you should do better.

Fiat is infinite, blockspace is limited. What an idiotic take! 🐸

Nailed it .. it is like bitcoiners don't trust strength of #bitcoin .. sometimes devotees think God is fragile statue 😊😊

By my calculations it’s not even near 1% Fedwire settles ~1,200 trillion every year, but Bitcoin only settled about ~3 trillion last year excluding same wallet and known exchange internal movements (according to a basic Glassnode metric I was looking at) Making Bitcoin settlement only about 0.25% of Fedwire But otherwise yes nevent1qqsz394wpaq9jmu6ksyw74rfkgkvrz3tdtamaew3ya0nfg5ecnevgycq459ke

I agree with you about some of this, but I just want to point out that the filters are what's causing bandwidth strain because nodes and other miners that aren't aware of certain transactions and have to download them to validate a recently mined block. Bandwidth usage is already limited by block size and blocks are almost always full anyway, so it's not like spam would actually increase the amount of data that needs to be shared every time a block is mined. Having everyone aware of all the transactions available to be mined would reduce latency and keep the network running smoother. As for the rest, I agree that spam is marginally detrimental to the monetary use case, but I also think it will be priced out pretty easily at higher fee rates. My current opinion is that I would like to see fees reach a higher baseline to preemptively price out spam before the filters are dropped, but I do think they should be dropped eventually.

Respect the argument and criticism. Some of us do believe to be serving a noble cause. "Mossad ran 9/11 Arab "hijacker" terrorist operation" By Wayne Madsen https://www.ord.io/72990614

Full archive: https://www.ord.io/bc1prwdy4wcw8k7vlzrqdpwesew2fls9y2us472zj07u9wd2dmvckqhqwp9llt?profile-tab=inscriptions

Wrong. Suggest reading the whole post, but I pulled out the relevant part to your opinion. nevent1qqs9glszh26df9cdhlm6w94rswczfwsnw9lx3zkv9v9sqc8z4yxaf6spupmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhj2v3swaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9ujnyvrhwden5te0wfjkccte9eekjctdwd68ytnrdakj7ffjxpmhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuvrcvd5xzapwvdhk6te9xgc8wumn8ghj7mnxwfjkccte9eshqup0y5erqamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7tjwvhxumm5daeks6fwwa5kute9xgc8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwv4u8getj0ghxxmmd9ujnyvrhwden5te0vejkuunfwgkhxtnwda6x7umgdyh8w6twp2effm

Here comes the mop! Many Bitfluencers are paid in fiat by sponsors who make money at conventions and by selling Web3 crap. Is this related somehow?

I still think that Lyn is trying to be intellectually honest, but has much to learn about the nuances of this topic. I don’t think she’s a fiat shill, yet.

I've read that post and I know about the block reconstruction, but that doesn't address my argument about bandwidth. If everyone is running filters then nodes and miners will never see certain transactions to cache them.

Good. Then they don’t need to be seen and can just be dropped.

Since day one, I said "Cui Bono"? Who would most benefit from the whole world suddenly hating Muslims?

Until a big miner mines them...

I read both posts twice and I’m honestly not getting where you think she argued Bitcoin was a generic database, even though that’s the position you seem to be debating. Her claim on the book is that *money* is a ledger system. And it is, but that also isn’t a claim that it’s a generic database. Her logic is going the other direction, not claiming what can or ought to be written on or even what that “ledger” look like, only that successful money is able to behave as a ledger system, both physical and digital forms. I feel like half these comments aren’t responding to the specific content of the original note.

One does not need cope if one does not perceive a problem. I'm bullish on bitcoin as it is. I think it's as valuable as we thought. However, when I see arguments that JPEGs are a problem, I can only assume they fear it's not as valuable as they thought. Otherwise I don't think they'd view it as a problem. I would oppose consensus changes to make it easier to put more non-monetary stuff into the timechain. But that's not what Core has proposed; they just don't see a purpose to make relaying more restrictive than what can be mined. Attempting to filter what people are willing to pay for and what fits within current consensus, is a pretty Sisyphean activity in my view.

Thank you for your point of view, i agree that #bitcoin transaction *should* be enough high to avoid jpeg on blockchain. But we are not speaking only about jpeg but every other use that could delay transactions. Nakamoto has a vision for #bitcoin and he explained and made his vision a reality. We are not "fighting" here to know if a block can handle or not some extra data like jpeg. We are "fighting" here to know if the blockchain is enough secure for futures attacks. You know attacks like "put your birthdate and name on the blochain for 15$" for the newbee. And the operator that want to do that just need few space for 15$ to do it (but with a lot of customer it could take a lot of space in a block). Perhaps it is a stupid example. Perhaps it will not happen this way. But be sure that if there is no filter and just a "hope" that spam will be stopped by fees, it is a big lack of vision. #bitcoin is used to transfer value from a wallet to another, it has be built for this use and it is more and more use for this with time. If you don't have any vision about how to preserve that, it will be a huge danger for the legit transactions in future. When the perfect high value spam will delay legit transactions because they will find a way to make their spam enough valuable to be push in the blockchain. And it is not acceptable that fees would be over-high for legit transactions. I am not saying you can't put "extra data" on the blockchain, but it MUST be a way to preserve legit transaction and not only rely on fees. It is a lack of vision to just "hope" it will be enough. Thanks for your share. #btc4ever

It gets in the timechain anyway because they fit within consensus. Node-level filtering only prevents types of spam that people aren't willing to pay for; not what they are willing to pay for (since they can go directly to miners). So it's down to either proposing a consensus change that actually limits that stuff from getting in there, or it's mainly just performative.

Hey Lyn we all love and respect you. Yes Consensus is the backbone . But don’t you think that the culture and the node level policies are extremely important too?

I love you!

🙄

Well let me know your feedback about the book if you ever do read it. Otherwise, you're talking about a book you haven't read. Doesn't seem like a great use of time, but please continue.

I just don't want to have any part in relaying spam. Not with my node. If it gets in the blockchain then fine, there's nothing I can do about it, but up until that point I want nothing to do with it.

On 2023/Oct Lyn: Shitting on jews hurts Bitcoin and crypto On 2025/May Lyn: Bitcoin core is just irrelevant to Bitcoin lets skip that discussion Me 2025/May: stick to fiction lyn View quoted note →

On 2023/Oct Lyn: Shitting on jews hurts Bitcoin and crypto On 2025/May Lyn: Bitcoin core is just irrelevant to Bitcoin lets skip that discussion Me 2025/May: stick to fiction lyn View quoted note →

Isn’t that when nodes with filters becoming dominant, at some point miners risk getting punished when they mine spams ? because they get orphaned more likely whenever two blocks are mined at the same time like once in one or two weeks

Monetary use case is the culture. No?

you completely dismissed core

“I don’t care what goes in blocks” That’s what exactly why I think the culture is deteriorating in the first place.

Would anybody even know what is going into blocks if it wasn’t for social media? Are you really monitoring the blockchain to see how many inscriptions are made? This is all manufactured drama.

sorry it took me a while to dig up the jews stuff quote from you: "The world is an increasingly polarized place, and my biggest concern is for those polarizations to be used to take rights away in a more broader context, or to wage war between larger opponents. Politicians will propagandize any small share of “crypto funding” to bad groups to justify more restrictions on those technologies and privacy in general." I think you forgot to mention that by default any financial restrictions opens the door for more opportunities in a more efficient black market that nurtures the moral of words of honor and its way better for individuals in a long term financial prespicteve, and that been the case for ages (me and my family/relatives always used such services) I guess you forgot that because you were traumatized sympathizing with thieves and killers from Jewish beliefs nevent1qqs28dasrkag2gk03ryx0g0kqm54hzcsvfpmgezfyypv7sya87cyk9czyr4tpe6k6v4cp0x5vneas39cqspsxp66z04tcdve5a3vntr6hy057qcyqqqqqqgjhqnxe

Never underestimate the determined miniority🤝

If no one care why do we have this drama/ discussion? Social consensus matters.

Absolutely. Here’s a speculative, Bitcoin-centered reimagining of The Decline of Sterling—mirroring Catherine Schenk’s chapter structure but projecting it into a future where Bitcoin supplants the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency: --- Part I: Reconstructing the Post-Dollar Monetary Order, 2024–2032 Chapter 2: The Fraying of the Bretton Woods II System (2024–2026) Chronicling rising global debt, weaponization of the dollar via sanctions, and diminishing trust in U.S. fiscal discipline. Nations begin seeking alternatives to SWIFT and the eurodollar system. Bitcoin gains traction in parallel financial rails (e.g., Lightning, stablecoin hedges). Chapter 3: The Rise of Bitcoin Convertibility (2026–2032) Bitcoin transitions from a store of value to a transactional asset as major economies legalize and integrate BTC payment rails. Central banks accumulate BTC in sovereign wealth reserves. El Salvador becomes an early case study; BRICS nations follow. --- Part II: Accelerating the Retreat: The Dollar in the 2030s Chapter 4: The Dollar and Fragmented Globalism The U.S. attempts to retain financial hegemony while new regional blocs (e.g., BRICS+, GCC, ASEAN+) adopt BTC-settled trade deals. The IMF’s SDRs lose relevance; Bitcoin-denominated trade begins to rise. Chapter 5: The 2031 Dollar Crisis: The Fed, the Treasury, and the New IMF A major U.S. debt crisis sparks capital flight. The Fed's interventions become inflationary. A Bitcoin-backed liquidity fund is created by a coalition of non-Western nations. The IMF begins modeling synthetic BTC instruments. Chapter 6: Wall Street vs. the Protocol Wall Street firms tokenize assets and issue Bitcoin-tracked derivatives. Tensions emerge between permissioned blockchains and Bitcoin’s open architecture. The battle resembles London’s City grappling with post-empire decline. --- Part III: The Dollar’s Final Retreat, 2040–2050 Chapter 7: Multilateral Negotiations: Bretton Woods III and the Protocol Layer G20 and BIS organize a new monetary order. Instead of pegging to a fiat reserve, nations peg to BTC’s protocol via Layer 2 networks. Smart contract-enforced monetary rules become standardized. Chapter 8: The 2044 Bitcoin Accords Major central banks formally disclose BTC holdings. Trade settlements occur via state Lightning nodes. The dollar retains use in domestic U.S. finance, but is sidelined globally—analogous to sterling post-1968. Chapter 9: The End of the Petrodollar System OPEC+ prices oil in BTC, ending 80 years of dollar supremacy in energy. U.S. loses final leverage point. The Fed becomes inward-facing; U.S. policy turns isolationist. Chapter 10: Conclusion – The First Decentralized Reserve Currency Bitcoin's emergence reframes monetary sovereignty as a software standard. Power shifts from states to networks. The dollar fades not from collapse, but managed retreat—mirroring sterling’s quiet exit a century earlier. --- Would you like this written up as a future-history style essay or formatted into a fake book preface?

Oof! Criticizing her book that you haven't even read. Damn! 😂😂

All it takes is to access one miner that'll stick those things in there, and it bypasses all of the node filtering.

I could be wrong on technical things of course. But what’s wrong to advocate for Bitcoin is money and not just a database and at least have a gut to fight against spammers? And how do you know core is doing this improving Bitcoin and not actually attacking it? No one can predict unknown unknown consequences otherwise we won’t have inscription/ ordinals in the first place. I suggest we should do nothing. But it’s core who want to push the update without social consensus. These kind of attitudes are unacceptable

The biggest issue with Bitcoin is bloat. And now you want to add more bloat? Seems unreasonable.

If you care about nodes being accessible why are you in favour of making them less accessible to people? You know adding more unnecessary data to the blockchain will only make it harder for people to run nodes.

It sounds like you didn't read my post.

Yes, I know all about this. But I feel more and more reluctant of updating my core version, which is also not a good approach. It is like being a security guy at the door. You do what you have to do in the according situation, but there are rules and frame work you have to apply and follow. The last option in this job is to quit, which would mean I would shut down my node.

The miner which is doing this, risks slower block propagation through the open relay network and by that risk of an orphaned block. This gives the majority of the hashrate a positiv economic incentive to mine what nodes signal to be mined through their relay policy. It doenst mean there will be never blocks with garbage, but that was never the case anyway. Why is that point always glossed over?

It's always about incentives. Node runners are still free to determine what's get filtered. Miners are free to determine which transaction they mine. If enough node runners are fed up with a bloated mempool on their node, they should take action and this in turn will incentivize miners to consider the risk of slower block propagation. Lynn's point does raise a valid about the cost of transactions that need to disincentivize jpeg's over valid tx's. In times with low tx volumes, jpeg bloat provides extra income stream for miners. While in times of high tx volumes, jpeg bloaters will think twice if the cost of their monkey pics are worth it.

"What would you pay to move a full bitcoin globally, permissionlessly, in 10 minutes, in a world where it's no longer a niche thing?" Answer: ZERO

Expensive fees can be better used to stack sats. We want Bitcoin only as digital currency not meme. In a huge city, bitcoiners community build architecture others just draw graffiti.

No, it’s hype for nonsense 😀

I’m referring to consensus with the community, not within their group. Of course they can do whatever they want, but that’s a topdown approach and not bitcoin ethos. Plus Antoine sitting down and calling Citrea “User” and noderunners “enthusiasts” also worries me

Is it the case that the current world order with regard to the dollar being the world reserve currency is breaking down? The tariffs and the sanctions and the increasing fragility of the treasury market makes me wonder if cross border Capital flows are signaling that it is The Sterling went away [it took several decades] and the dollar took over and then the dollar changed a couple times from gold to oil to ... whatever it is now So now it's [apparently, maybe] time for a new financial system to take over the planet again like it does every 50 years or so What are the odds that it will be bitcoin based?

🫡 Thanks for the discussion anyways

Decent note discussion I stumbled across in the firehouse, even though I follow Lyn, I missed this yesterday View quoted note →

If JPEG's are stupid... then leave the currently existing filters and add even more filters to actively fight against the spam. I would love to see just you and Bitcoin Mechanic talking this out on a podcast. View quoted note →

Then why bitcoin fix satoshi dice? Do you think bitcoin could survive with satoshi dice?

Maybe cloudflare could weigh in?

Before : We have to fix satoshi dice!!!! Now : Oh jpeg are fine~ 🤡

>And if Bitcoin transactions can't outprice >JPEGs in the long run, then it's just not that >valuable. The demand for *arbitrary* data is gigantically larger than monetary data. Bitcoin the money will never be able to compete with that, and expecting it to do so is just stupid. Especially if we take the time dependency into account. The monetary use case proves its value in the Long Run (as fiat systems gradually start to fail one by one in the future). But by the time we reach the point we actually need it, it could well be already dead - because it was just dominated by garbage in the meantime and ppl stop running nodes for this type of junk.

Well damn. I considered storing information on the blockchain before, (email specifically) but I never fully considered the implications. I want to see what happens if people start uploading CP to the Bitcoin blockchain. Would it damage the price of Bitcoin? Would chain analysis tools be restricted? Or would it get people to rethink the reasonableness of child porn laws? Personally I trust the mantra "nothing ever happens." People would just pretend that the child porn doesn't exist, or come up with a retarded rationalization for why it doesn't count.

let‘s say it’s AI generated and shows EU functionaries. Would Europe be stupid enough to prosecute nodes and miners?

UK & AU will be just as tyrannical, fearful and predatory as the EU. I wouldn't even trust today's Singapore.

Uploading an image to the Bitcoin blockchain would be expensive enough. Buying enough CSAM to train an AI to generate it would be prohibitively expensive. I don't mean to virtue signal, but my child porn collection isn't anywhere close to the size of the FBI's collection, and I sincerely doubt they'd be fine with their CP being used to incriminate globalists.

Money is a $300 trillion market. If bitcoin monetary transactions don’t outprice JPEGs in the future, it means Bitcoin never took any meaningful marketshare of money. It failed as money in that scenario.

have you considered to run a gofundme?

"Go Fund Me! I neen money so I can pay for child rape!" To be honest, I did not consider that possibility. But I don't believe in asking for money for something unless I believe it's worth the price. I myself would never contribute to a Gofundme like that since I don't believe that the high cost of child porn is worth the benefit of screwing with globalists.

OK, another idea: run for a public office to put price caps on child porn and then buy with tax money

I refuse. Price caps are immoral. Besides, there are already laws against pirating child porn and there are many who still break those laws. Even if the state made price caps, most sellers would probably just ignore the price caps. Alas, all that tax revenue falls through the state's fingers. Ah well, the biggest cost of child porn is to children's modesty anyway, so it's not really something we can extract or control anyway. Not to virtue signal or anything. Also, if I'm going to run for public office just to make AI generated CP depicting a public official, why not just run for office and then make child porn the old fasioned way? Faith in public officials would be in shambles...

you‘re right! That’s the way: introduce adult child intercourse in schools’ teaching schedule and film the practical exercises

Man, that just sounds like some supid pedophile smut story. There's just way too much going on in it. I already told you from the start that I didn't see much point in seriously considering this. Elaborate plans and schemes can never accomplish as much at just talking with someone can, in which case all of these extra details are entirely gratuitous.