Spam apologists trying to reintroduce the Bitcoin censorship FUD painted with jargon to confuse people. Sigh Spam filters cannot be abused for censorship. It only takes 1 block to bypass attempts to censor. But it takes 1 block to make spam filters effective. Opposites.

Replies (39)

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npub1qwrx...jwe3 10 months ago
nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqquxdpn0xlh4zqw9k3patfqml9nnndqkyd9e642sfxzlycj5279pqy2hwumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hj7qghwaehxw309aex2mrp0yh8qunfd4skctnwv46z7qpqa68zlj3u73kke75zwh85myznavnf8m5h8nkemue80f4f88wrk0rqes42em
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npub1c80w...h5s7 10 months ago
Filters can definitely lead to censorship, which then means that someone who is being censored needs to approach a friendly miner directly (and bribe them with a hefty fee to include their transaction). Given that mining is currently highly centralised, it would mean that a shadowy world government would only need to strong arm a handful of big miners and force them to refuse business with a censored entity and thus that entity will be barred from using bitcoin. Is this not a conceivable scenario?
Adam Nowotny's avatar
Adam Nowotny 10 months ago
There is a difference between censorship and validation. Do I understand it right that rejecting OP_RETURN doesn't reject financial transactions? What are some legitimate uses of this field?
You understand correct. Op_return is for data only and was added as a compromise for people that kept adding data in other more harmful ways.
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npub176d9...2zh2 10 months ago
you can´t even secure your own computer and people should run your software?
ESE's avatar
ESE 10 months ago
It makes me think of a remote parking lot in a national park. Usually, just a handful of hikers show up, but once the limited wildflower bloom hits, it floods with cars. Volunteers install a 7-foot clearance bar across the entrance: sedans and SUVs still slip through, but the towering RVs that want to camp for the weekend and hog multiple spots for little or no fee can’t fit. Because the beam is welded in place, any future volunteer (miner) must enforce that same height limit. There’s no central authority, just the inherited structure. Contrast that with a lone volunteer who decrees “no gasoline-powered cars” (blocking valid txs), a personal whim instantly overturned when the subsequent volunteer waves gas guzzlers in while pocketing the parking donations. Yet many Ordinals/BRC-20 boosters now gaslight the debate, calling this neutral, equitable size filter “censorship” and conflating it with bans, despite having once cheered Marathon’s real OFAC blocklist—filters ≠ censorship. View quoted note →
ESE's avatar
ESE 10 months ago
@npub1pc57...dmza @Noshole think of a remote parking lot in a national park. Usually, just a handful of hikers show up, but once the limited wildflower bloom hits, it floods with cars. Volunteers install a 7-foot clearance bar across the entrance: sedans and SUVs still slip through, but the towering RVs that want to camp for the weekend and hog multiple spots for little or no fee can’t fit. Because the beam is welded in place, any future volunteer (miner) must enforce that same height limit. There’s no central authority, just the inherited structure. Contrast that with a lone volunteer who decrees “no gasoline-powered cars” (blocking valid txs), a personal whim instantly overturned when the subsequent volunteer waves gas gazzlers in while pocketing the parking donations. Yet many Ordinals/BRC-20 boosters now gaslight the debate, calling this neutral, equitable size filter “censorship” and conflating it with bans, despite having once cheered Marathon’s real OFAC blocklist—filters ≠ censorship.
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npub1wucn...ha2m 10 months ago
Public speculation on who might be Satoshi. Hal Finney's family has been negatively affected by such speculation; so have other ppl identified who are still alive. Satoshi made a very clear choice to be and to remain anonymous. I personally think that choice was a key part of Bitcoin's success and that his anonymity should be (publicly) respected. Of course, we can't stop speculation on such a topic and certain media organisations have relished diving into the mystery. But I think such speculation should be shunned within the Bitcoin community.
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npub1dwcq...m7sl 10 months ago
Clear distinction. Spam mitigation ≠ censorship. It's keeping the network usable.
Gregor's avatar
Gregor 10 months ago
I agree about Satoshi reveal attempts. The thread, at least in Damus, started with a post from @Luke Dashjr about spam, the one you addressed looks out of context.
BitcoinIsFuture's avatar
BitcoinIsFuture 10 months ago
BitcoinIsFuture's avatar BitcoinIsFuture
I 💜 Bitcoin Knots. So, who secures Bitcoin?! If securing Bitcoin requires consensus on what Bitcoin is, and Bitcoin is a database of values assigned to keys, and Bitcoin has a protocol for reassignment of keys, then securing Bitcoin can only be done by … your node! Nodes! Nodes! Nodes! In the end, YOU secure Bitcoin, but the only time that matters is when you agree with someone else on what Bitcoin is, and the only way that you can express yourself to others is via your node. You can try to abstract this and say that hodlers of last resort secure it, or that you can express yourself by buying or selling, but the only way you can actually communicate yourself is via enforcement of the protocol. What about Miners? Miners are suppliers of blocks, nothing more. Nodes demand consensus-compatible blocks as a vessel for key reassignment. Miners’ ability to influence the protocol is limited to the wiggle room within the protocol’s magic numbers. from https://medium.com/bitcoinerrorlog/who-secures-bitcoin-95b19bbcda3c
View quoted note →
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npub1zmc6...7f60 10 months ago
You don't have to use their tool to bypass filters. You just have to know how to actually use Bitcoin yourself.
Lostdog's avatar
Lostdog 10 months ago
Would an increase of the utxo set eat up more of that precious RAM of yours 🤔?
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npub1luh5...lqgz 10 months ago
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Adam Nowotny's avatar
Adam Nowotny 10 months ago
So I see how this could be useful for some cases. Would be nice to have some kind of basic structure like protocol:data to let them through. I just don't want to have to buy new 1TB every year so others can store their "I was here" graffiti on my node
Hi Luke, it's great to have other options like Knots, but I think a 1-Dev project can be a vulnerability too. Any plans to onboard other people to your project?