Replies (155)
Is the wallet balance public?
and then back. the important questions
There is no wallet. Your sats live on the nostr relays.
s/spend/decrypt/
Really cool.
It makes sense that custodial Zapping is handled by seamless ecash services directly integrated in nostr clients.
Of course the non custodial zapping is my favorite way to do this but the onboarding experience will be very cool with this system.
Looks very cool. Is it a custodial wallet?
So much bullishness that it hurts...
so Relay disappears. Ecash gone??
what if Relay disappears. Ecash gone, right??
All the relays need to disappear.
Amazing work Pablo!
This makes all the difference!
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
all? So the ecash lives somehow in all the relays or in that I am connected to?
Awesome stuff Pablo 🔥 Now I need to set up my own mint...
Yeah I guess you can basically treat each zap (ecash token) as a nostr event propagated on some relays
Is this all using cashu tokens or is this compatible with lightning zaps?
Also is this using pubkey locked cashu tokens?
Also what are your thoughts on malicious nostr apps that steal everything as soon as you login?
no, it's locked, not encrypted.
yes, they are compatible -- with this, if you try to zap someone that doesn't have a cashu wallet announced it will do a regular bolt11 zap from the cashu balance
(how cool is that?!)
yes, these are pubkey-locked cashu tokens, locked to the pubkey of the npub with a "02" prefix for parity
so the proofs are actually unencrypted, anyone can verify them, but only the recipient can swap them
No, once it's in your wallet, it's there. Even if the relay disappears. Only payments you haven't received yet (while you were offline) can potentially disappear if all relays they are published to disappear.
Thank you, this is awesome.
Now we only need proper private DMs and this thing is gonna be fire!!!
What's the capacity? Does that depend on the mint?
👏👏👏
Biggest issue we have with ecash now is that there are two competing standards with incompatible formats. I prefer fedimint because I want the money federated across mulitple juristictions, but I guess cashu is easier to intergrate.
Wen this on NDK
@PABLOF7z?
working on it right now
Fantastic 😎
👇👇👇💖WOW!😃👇👇👇
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
so it's trust me bro, got it
no, it works like Bitcoin works. you lock money, and you unlock money. we don't say "encrypt an utxo to me".
pay to public key hash is literally a protocol enforced thing, and only works because thousands of nodes have to agree the signature is valid
it says right in the last sentence of the description of the protocol:
`The spending condition is enforced by the mint.`
it's not a blockchain protocol so the spend condition is entirely under the control of the mint, the issuer of the p2pk is trusting the mint to do this
Ah, cool. So its the same cashu stuff me and
@npub1rw7h...sl3w played around with :)
correct, that's how ecash work
s
i know, that's why i'm very wary and kinda hostile to it because popularising trust me bro with bitcoin tech without creating strong countermeasures for trust violation seems like rolling out the red carpet for vicious thieves
her name was Yeshimebet
When can we play
Imagine trying to explain this to your average person not in nostr
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
This is a custodial solution. There is always a level of trust in a custodial system. This is an improvement to everyone using custodial WoS or Alby. If you want to maintain full custody run your own lightning node (and/or mint)
The biggest thing to happen to Nostr since NIP-57
WHOA
Other stuff keeps happening that is exceeding my expectations
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Ok, this is cool and all, but if you allow me to be a skeptic for 1 second: didn't you just create the #Bitcoin / #Nostr equivalent of a social credit system?
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Create a new npub? So much work 😩
Oi #nostr it's me again with a new #shitpost
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
But it is custodied by a mint?
He forgot to mention that it involves 2 trusted third parties: mint and relay
Deeper understanding is never a waste!
the real question:
can you opt out?
yes.
this is 100% by design and intentional for a sovereign mint operator.
the cashu spec doesnt require backing by sats, nor does it require the operator to fullfill outbound payment requests
No, you opt-in.
People can still send you ecash due to the mere fact that you have an npub, you can always choose to not redeem them
NWC can work for recurring payments, at least the way alby has done
yes. shitcoinery
Okay now I see what you're saying. All of this is well above my head. While the overall concept of this is really cool to me I can now appreciate your POV
,,🤯
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Is the code public?
Will it use the dm relays for the outbox model?
No, it shouldn’t; dm relays might guard REQs behind AUTH which you don’t want for public zaps; for private zaps you might, yeah
Yeah, it’s on my GitHub; still tightly coupled to the highlighter codebase but I’ll be extracting it today into a nicely packaged thing
So it would just use the public inbox relays correct?
minty fresh
Afaiu, cashu's architecture is closer to nostr:
It's the user who decides which mints he wants to trust and store his sats on; there's no need for a federation of mints and trusting between them.
Simpler indeed.
We'll see how this space evolves.
Afaik:
+ Nostr relays are functioning just as 'storage'.
+ Nostr npubs are functioning as pubkeys to allow receiving encrypted ecash.
+ Nostr event are functioning both as sending ecash and publishing the zap (public payment proof)
+ Mints functions don't change at all.
then primal is a lightning bank aka cashu mint 😁 hope you comply to European banking regulation...
why? where's the difference to a custodian bank?
this should not consensus in the ways of Satoshi #ProofOfWork
Olha aí
@Luiza, teremos carteiras bitcoin bastando ter uma npub.
via lightning
Vast majority of Nostr users use custodial lightning.
Today's custodial lightning offers no privacy and no censorship resistance.
Cashu offers strong privacy and censorship resistance.
For the minority of user who want to run their own lightning node, the option still exists. Cashu zaps address the reality that most do not.
Maybe one day a fully non-custodial solution will exist with great UX, but it doesn't today.
lol, both of you have custodial lightning for your zaps 😂😂
Nice 👏
It’s actually nice plausible deniability
Mind... blown 🤯
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Couldn't be more bullish on #bitcoin and #nostr
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
I've been thinking about this ALL day! Crazy stoked!
Will implement as soon as this ships.
Oh man, how can KYC & AML laws survive this going mainstream...
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
code review: you can mutate a const or should that be var/let? 😅
I don't fully understand it... but it looks very cool. Things are happening very fast on Nostr!
View quoted note →@Keychat this seems relevant to your “stamp” NIP
how long till zap for illicit purchases? Probably until gov comes down on the heads of cashapp and venmo dealers (so says SWIM). nostr will be ready tho... anticipating a very wild ride, fast adoption.
View quoted note →Banks being required to be FDIC insured was a good thing actually
I reserve "shitcoin" for bad faith efforts, and I think cashu is a legitimate effort to solve a hard problem. Still, it has serious flaws.
i like choices/fees?
I'm glad someone else see this shitcoinery.
disregard/dmyor t-y checking your links now/interesting pow Pablo
No custodial Lightning wallets because of the BitLicense regs.
This isn't shitcoinery. It's a legit method to possibly evolve the ecosystem. With that said though, I agree that there needs to always be actual sats backing any ecash transaction. Also need redundancy in the ecash mints. Could there be a way maybe to require ecash mints be in clusters of 4. So that the (4) in the cluster are each clones of one another. With the sats being held in a multisig wallet, so that 2 of the 4 mint clones hold the same multisig key and the other 2 mint clones hold the other multisig key. I guess this would make it a separate layer 2 network completely separate from lightning though.
Any language you prefer?
I'm solid in JS, and use Typescript on all my projects. I can get around in most languages though.
Can the mint refuse to sign tokens that are locked to a specific npub then?
Pablo, I really to develop at the pace you do, I really find everything you do innovative... The difference is I want to focus on privacy and security.
howfuckingcoolisthat!
View quoted note →When how to do this is clear to me by way of well written, easy to understand documentation, expressed in normie language that everyone (including those new to #nostr) can understand then I and I am sure others will look into/adopt it.
Ah that stupid Lawsky from 2014
Still fucking us over on the daily.
Crazy prospects...
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Yea no kidding, moved all the early stage innovation
…. Outside of the US. Still appears to be the case.
I'll bet money most people are sleeping through this potential sea change.
View quoted note →Dynamically Encoded Ecash Zaps
DEEZ
Would zap splits still work?
Yea
I dont understand it. Can someone xplain pls?
This is a demo of an app where the balance from nostr zaps are somehow magically tied to my nsec using ecash. Until now I could add my nsec to different nostr apps but each one of them uses a different lightning wallet. This puts zap IN nostr
Bullshit
😂😂 I swear this guy is a genius
How can you be sure that the sats in your WoS or Alby wallet are real before you spend them? How can you be sure that you will be able to spend your BTC on a centralized exchange tomorrow?
Same with mint, you are not sure, except you are not expected to keep any valuable amount on a mint, once you have 5000, 10000, 50'000sats on a mint, transfer it to Phoenix, Breez, Zeus or your full node with lightning, then when you have 100'000, 500'000, 1Msats on Lightning that you don't need for spending, swap it on-chain on a cold storage with key properly secured.
It's just a matter of habits and education.
yes. it would require some form of zero knowledge proof or an equivalent of silent payments to make it impossible for the mint to see who the owner of a (pseudorandom) pubkey is.
Someone please explain this post by
@PABLOF7z for a layman like me so I understand what I should do. I'm still a 'legay' Alby user. 😪
What to do with the new npub that Pablo mentions?
I could not see the attachment. Could you explain it for me?
Sure, I don't use custodial wallets except SN (to lightning address), and I auto withdraw to my node. But at least Wos, Alby, etc are large centralized entities. A mint can be spun up easily by anyone, and they are mostly anonymous.
Const means you can't replace the object pointer by anything else, but you can still modify the contents of the object.
I’m not fully understand, yet, but Yess #nostronly #Bitcoinonly
🤯🤯🤯
I think at this point that we can stop using the argument of too big to fail, everyone use it so it's safe, they are large entities we can trust them (oops: MtGox, eBTC, FTX, Celsius, Credit Suisse bank!).
Anyone can decide which mint use and trust for a few sats of change. Use mint of a dev you like, a big company or associations, someone met at a local meetup, a friends, family or your own.
I respect that you want to stay as close as possible to the core Bitcoin experience and ecosystem, in the beggining Lightning was rejected as not real bitcoins, now only a few purist would argue that Lightning should not be used and everytjng must stay on-chain, maybe cashu will become part of the Bitcoin ecosystem and accepted by the majority for some use cases or maybe a better solution will be found on Lightning that avoid larger fee to manage liquidity before accepting your first 21 sats as zap without relying on a couple of big centralized entities.
The #Bitcoin discovery layer of #Nostr just got fully unlocked! 🥜👀
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
"at least they are large centralized entities"
rekt
what about receiving? does it use some kind of cashu<->lightning address gateway for zaps by people who use a client that does not understand cashu zaps?
Well, with Lightning you can split a single sat into msats. Not sure you can do that with any of the existing ecash mints.
Not yet, but I will probably write one; the beauty is that it doesn’t need to take custody at any time; you respond to an LNURL request with the mint’s bolt11, so it’s extremely lightweight
I think there are open source gateways already, no need to write a new one. It should just be setup during onboarding in the profile.
They don’t do the new spec, they just send you unlocked ecash via a dm
You can do whatever unit you want. Msats are dumb anyway, but you could easily run a mint that uses them
Is there a writeup of how Cashu pubkey-locking works?
@calleDon't stain yourself jumping through logical hoops
Ah, so the lock is initiated by the mint, not on the user’s Cashu client? Cause I was wondering how to prevent double spending.
It's initiated by the sending user but it's enforced by the mint.
thx for the answer, but I see that kind of problematic in some cases.
we all want nostr to grow, right? with that you will also get officials (politicians, CEOs etc.) on here that might be in a jurisdiction that doesn't allow them to take (let's call it) donations...
just my thoughts on this
Ah, so there is an http request from the sender to the mint before the nut zap. It sounded like magic to zap the ecash via nostr w/o any roundtrips to the lightning node.
You can’t prevent someone from sending you a check in the mail; you can simply not claim it.
People have been sending coinjoined bitcoins to states and legal entities for ever; there’s nothing they can do to avoid it, but they can ignore the money
That only works for unlocked tokens. You can zap someone an unlocked but encrypted token and that should work without talking to the mint. However, then it becomes less publicly verifiable.
Interesting. I was wondering why npub.cash doesn’t just send me an unlocked token via nostr DM when I receive a zap to my lightning address. I guess this is the UX that Pablo’s spec enables. But it also combines the Cashu wallet seed and the Nostr nsec as a single secret.
Yes and no.
I haven't seen a cheque in my whole life. Just heard about them 😆
How long can you cash in a cheque? How long can you redeem your zaps?
You have them, they are yours. You hold the only key to use them, and I don't think that it matters if you use them. I'm sure in some countries the possibility to redeem is also enough to make a taxable event out of it.
Don't get me wrong, I love your work and I'm amazed by the speed you are coming up with new stuff.
I'm a bit lost 🙃 how does it work please ? Any videos or articles that you would recommend so that I can dig a bit please? 🙏
first, no, I don't care about politicians being on Nostr.
second, there's no reason they could not come either, it's not illegal to receive money.
and third, let's not be pussies. We live a cypherpunk dream, let's enjoy it and not limit ourselves.
🤯🤯🤯
npub.cash does not do this, because I did not get to implement it yet.
Also it was always meant to be an API service that is more hidden from the user. Like giving a Lightning address to a Cashu wallet and claiming the nuts automatically
Makes sense. Just my 2 sats worth… as a developer I’m more likely to integrate an API that delights me as a user first.
I understand that. What exactly is missing to make it a delight? DMs doesn’t count, as it’s not part of the API ^^
I guess I’m defining API more broadly, as in “what UX does it enable”. Happy to connect to discuss in more depth if you’re open to it.
What app is this? I’m a beginner with Nostr and Damus.
What is this eCash and what does it have to do with Bitcoin?
@BTC Sessions this on your radar?
Se fossem carteiras de autocustódia, aí realmente seria muito massa. Do contrário, sendo carteiras custodiais, eles apenas estariam colocando-se em pé de igualdade com o Primal. De qualquer forma, mesmo neste último cenário, o Primal finalmente passaria a ter concorrentes à altura.
Obrigada por me marcar, é sempre bom ficar por dentro das novidades que estão por vir. 😘
Msats are a few decades ahead of their time
Seems like a security issue waiting to happen.
first: you and a lot of others might not care about it, but if nostr is growing it will happen.
second: in some jurisdictions and positions it might be.
third: giving the choice to opt out is actually expanding the limits.
but what do I know...
Not an app really. He's just demoing using his local workstation to showcase the core principles.
The main thing to take away from this is that the dev work gone into this is pretty genius and done by one person. Has huge implications for Nostr going forward.
Is this possible from any clients today? Who supports ecash zaps? (cc
@calle @PABLOF7z)
PABLOF7z
THE MONEY IS IN THE NOSTR!
👉 Create a new npub AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, no WoS, no nostr-wallet-connect pairing,... NOTHING
☑️ receive zaps
☑️ send zaps
☑️ and most importantly ACCESS MY WALLET FROM ANY CLIENT ON ANY DEVICE
these zaps are verifiable, way faster -- they are immediate (since the sending of the ecash is the zap, instead of waiting for a LN node to, maybe, publish a zap receipt)
Just like our contact lists follows us around, just like our profile data and our shitposts pops up in any nostr application, now so does our sats.
the money is in the nostr!
View quoted note →
Is it compatible with having other wallets in other clients? Or how does one need to proceed in order to try out?
