If you had $200 total worth of on-chain BTC, and it was your life savings, what would your strategy be to hodl it going forward—knowing that L1 fees will continue rising with adoption?
Login to reply
Replies (79)
If I had 200USD worth of BTC I'd wait for it to be worth 10000 USD and I'd bet the fees would not follow the same trend which has been the case for many years
Price is going up at a much faster rate than fees
Hold on and wait until those sats are worth much more.
So you think sat-nominated fees will not increase?
How much does it cost to live in a month?
How does the fee increase forever under hardcaped total supply?
There's always planB
View quoted note →
?
I think (or hope) we are currently seeing a glimpse of a distant future where 500 sat/VB is the new standard. I expect fees to come down again in the short term (months).
I thought you’d have had more than that, but I would keep it there and it will go up way faster than fees. Hodl on Hodlonaut, your 200 will become 1000s 🤙
😂
I think for sure that fees nominated in sats will increase too.
The level of privilege it is to write to L1 bitcoin is unfathomable, and the scarcity of block space is not well understood.
I really hope we develop fantastic L2/3 options for the average person as that’s what Bitcoin is to me, sound money for all globally
Only L1 will have pristine and uncompromising soundness. We will have to accept trade-offs in scaling, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
#HODL and wait.
1. The $200 will become $200,000 worth of today's purchasing power.
2. At that time, fees will be higher than $200, but less than $200k because if the cheapest fee to pay is $200k, all the brain power of the planet will concentrate on reducing the fees.
#Bitcoin teaches you #LowTimePreference
if you're poor and want to save with bitcoin you'll have to be extremely efficient managing your utxos and plan for very few top-ups, maybe once a year
the interim will have to be held with dollars
look at it like a bit more liquid real-estate
you need to forecast fees in available kilobytes. not dollar price
Absolutely , but for most L1 will be too expensive for smaller savings so as you say trade offs. People will leave on exchanges sadly
Hold it on an opendime. If you ever want to, sell it all at once and get your change on lightning?!
I'm using dollar here just to make a point. The space will always be limited, and that's the reason why we'll always find better solutions.
the thing is you cannot use NgU to justify the ability to move a 0.01 utxo in the future. if anything, NgU will make the required fee, priced in bytes, more expensive
Man this is a valuable thought experiment.
Keep some in lightning and hodl the rest
Until something new (like segwit) will be introduced, due to NgU, I mean not just price but the price we pay per transaction.
Necessity (more people, creating NgU, creating more usage) is the mother of invention (making the fees in sats cheaper again).
Seeing the answers ppl still don't realise this scenario could be to them in the future.
Consolidate into a single utxo, wait and hope for the best
The value will always be greater than the fees.
Sell my remaining furniture to increase my #Bitcoin stack.
what would YOU do?
Earn more
I think you're right
Fees are not based on dollar amounts but weight of the transaction.
Long term savings.
The value of sats will increase over time. If your $200 bitcoin is worth $20k at some point, then even if fees increase you are good.
I’d continue saving and the make my one eventual on chain spend into a lightning wallet like Zeus so I’d have a channel with that capacity indefinitely
Then* goddamn typos
come to jesus
View quoted note →
Keep adding and hodl. Fees will go back down.
I sell the keys down the road. I trade my pass phase for a car or lightning. Its still good, the buyer just needs to be patient or thats how it “moves”. It transfers off chain.
Strategy is to get a bigger life savings
100% on Target
Buy an ordinal from Bitcoin magazine
😂😂😂
Fees in sats can also go up. It will be a very tough realization for people that have low balances or many UTXOs.
This amount is too little to hold in more than one UTXO. I think that's the point of the question.
OpenDimes are without any way of redundancy. By design you can't have a backup.
You don't have to stack in fiat. You can still stack in some custodial solution. Ideally some uncle Jim and not some Coinbase.
Chaumian Mints will make this easy and hopefully the default for most people.
I don't understand. You have to part with increasingly more valuable satoshis to pay increasingly higher fees. In USD terms, the fees will increase at least as fast as the value of the original $200.
Nah. The cointelegraph ones are better.
this makes no sense. as long as there is blockspace demand people will shell as much sats as required from their utxos as possible
In my opinion, this is what happens:
1- An increase in the transaction fee causes the number of Bitcoin enthusiasts and users to decrease.
2- The decrease of Bitcoin users causes the price of Bitcoin to decrease.
3-The decrease in the price of Bitcoin forces miners to increase the size of the blocks so that the transaction fee reaches an acceptable level.
Even if we assumed your assumption was correct:
Let's assume an average $12 fee now (probably will drop back to lower levels)
$200 - $12 = $188
If we assume your thesis that fees will increase at the same pace as the savings:
$20,000 - $1200 = $18,800
Yeah, I'd rather have $18,800 stored safely on the base layer, vs storing that amount on L2.
If #Bitcoin appreciate 100% average per year let's say $200 become $204,800.00 in 10 years so just HODL I would not care if my transaction to send my #Bitcoin to a lender for Fiat is $1000 I'll never sell my sats 🫡
anyone consolidating 500k sats utxos is a 🐻
i could be wrong, but i highly doubt the fees will increase as much as the value of bitcoin. the fees are based on the amount of data being sent in the tx and not on the amount of sats being sent.
this is the best answer in the thread
Withdraw 4% every year ,once a year, until you die.
At least that’s how current retirement accounts work, I imagine it will be a similar case going forward.
Things will look much different on a savings culture as opposed to a credit culture.
And ? People are still counting in USD when it comes to measure the fees they are willing to pay for their tx. If Bitcoin price increases (regardless of the way you measure it: fiat, bananas or anything) then the sat/vbyte people accept to pay will decrease at the same rate.
Well, lets see what happens with, or as it's just 200$ I would maybe lock it on LN channel and use on LN.
Way too many variables to answer this. Is that $200 life savings in one UTXO or 20 $10 chunks? What sort of timeframe until you need to access/use the funds? So on and so forth.
If your assuming that sat/vB fees are going up forever, then you should opt for a custodian you trust or lock it up in a lightning channel if you're willing/able to do so.
I'm not certain that sat/vB will go up forever since scaling layers will continue to be built going forward, so you might be fine just leaving it so long as it's only one UTXO.
liquid + jade
Very sad to say this, but I would wrap it on Ethereum, borrow stable and buy BTC on LN. After that I would be assured that I can manage at least a part of my value under almost any circumstance
I would not recommend holding any amount on-chain until something changes such as the activation of BIPs and/or the introduction of a better L2 scaling solution. it's basically broken right now.
Fees in terms of USD will keep on rising meanwhile in terms of sats will keep on decreasing.
Nope
This is just a guess, I could be wrong.
Generate the priv key for the addresses in the wallet and let the next guy deal with fees.
Now less than a week later the average fee is around $4 - $5 per tx.
In the above example with a 100x increase in both exchange rate and transactions:
$20,000 - $450 = 19,550.
Math 4 the win 🏆
Put it on an exchange
In a hyperbitcoinized world I expect the banks, other large corps, and nation states will dominate block space on L1. Wealthy bitcoiners will still transact there but regular folks won't. Custodial L2 services will be the way for most people. The only significant difference between this banking system 2.0 and the legacy system will be the hard cap on the money supply, and that the Bitcoin network will make fractional reserve banking impossible because the network will not allow you to send out more money than you have. The people will benefit from saving in a deflationary currency.
is there such a thing as a collaborative batch transaction?
ie multiple users who are priced out of making thier own distnct, on chain transaction, pool their utxo's together, ahead of time, and construct a single, unified, lower fee transaction, that in some way helps all participants achieve a beneficial outcome ?
i really am just thinking out loud here.. but an example use case might be to bootstrap a lightning channel(s), using almost unspend layer 1 utxos...
Just had a look at the mempool today and the average tx fee is $1.61.
![[Redacted]'s avatar](https://i.nostr.build/tY4jXJYaDhmNcqRc.jpg)
Consolidate UTXOs when fees are low enough and/or probably send it to Lightning or some other layer 2 if I'm honest.
Send it to a @phoenix wallet