What level of nostr derangement syndrome is this. Nostr won’t work because you can just censor the apps? What? This seems like an argument against X not nostr. 
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Explain again how an app that can be sideloaded can be truly censored?
OK let's take crazy pills and assume it can be. Does he not understand how nostr keys work? Kinda the whole point that your identity follows you.
Open sourced clients means anyone can spin up their own client.
Nostr is significantly censorship resistant. No one is claiming censorship proof.
Lmaooooo I didn’t realize that it is an actual hashtag
join us
I clearly did the day that I joined nostr.
right!?
angles/analytics Parker is good @, especially his own imho
yes
He also did it just now in brazil
mixers 4 ISP's ?
He has a point but only in a vacuum. That scenario is plausible but is not anywhere near the whole picture.
He is not considering the fact that we can simply turn to any of the other nostr clients.
Oh, they're all "banned"? We we can easily sideload the apps.
And if that doesn't work we can spin up private clients with open source code.
All the while your identity persists like nothing happened.
A protocol is PRECISELY what we need. Saying we need unfaliable devs is like saying the solution to corruption is a perfectly virtuous government. All humans have a weak spot.
Nostr provides trustless identity and the foundation for it.
Maybe he means that they'll go after one or two devs and make an example out of them for the rest? But his conclusion is wrong.
But also, these guys are blind to their own leader. Elon has bent the knee in Turkey and in India and has censored accounts there. And the likely reason is that it would affect sales of Tesla/Starlink in those jurisdictions. What a free speach hero...
Nostr isn't claiming to be the town square. It is a censorship resistant protocol where people can go (often as a last resort) to maintain their voice.
endpoints
Thinking is his problem.
You’re supposed to do the thinking after the understanding, and Parker clearly hasn’t got that part down.
I don't agree all that he said re the app level censorship. However, before we fully shut his concept. Could we look at the last statement he said? If let's say someone decided to "shutdown" or block the entire protocol (god forbid! 😬), since no one owns it. How do we navigate this predicament? genuinely curious #asknostr
To expand on this, nostr is there for the most desperate, much like bitcoin to be honest.
It gives those who would otherwise have no voice the ability to communicate, just like bitcoin gives the unbanked the ability to transact.
I agree 99% of people won't do all those things, but also 99% of people likely aren't desperate enough right now. If/when that time comes, nostr will be here for them. Things like that don't happen in a vacuum. And when it does happen to a given population, that disenfranchised group alone will be enough users to make nostr "worth it" and appreciated.
I noted this a while back but I think its appropriate here: nostr doesn't have to be big, to be big.
🤔 no community notes "readers added context" for false information?
Does he not know you can hop between clients lol?
I really don't uderstand Bitcoiners defending Elon Musk or X..
Lol those poor morons.
Here I am using a self-hosted web front end. Try and censor this shit MFers
You ever see a browser get censored?
Elon Musk is the biggest blind spot humanity ever had.
He's such a scammer and a govgov puppet.
If you listen to his lies and fake promises, he looks like a good guy, but if you look at his actions, you'll see something completely different.
The massive and impressive things are mostly also negative 😅
Exactly.
I don’t know what happened to Parker. He’s been spitting a lot of opinions out there that don’t seem well thought out. It’s as if he’s keeping his heels dug in with a narrow view and not challenging his thoughts even with considerable pushback.
Parker doesn't understand what protocol means 😁
This sounds like Ethereum logic tbh 😳
#ngmi
Never in my life thought I'd see Parker Lewis become an L-machine but here we are
Some people are retarded.
(Also an app getting censored, sounds like an iOS problem)
He fundamentally does not understand nostr
I’m so happy for him he has his trust in St. Elno of free speech.
Now what if he disagrees with him?
Wait until he finds out that you can host the same app on a gazillion different computers, auto-generate an endless number of apps, or that you can have N copies of the same app because they're open-source.
Apps are a commodity and therefore fungible.
1. He seems to be critical - not of Nostr - but of the activism of funneling people away from channels that are efficient at reaching an audience in 2024. Why is it so important for some here to adcocate for a Nostr-only position when our reach on Nostr vs the general public is still extremely limited.
2. He is saying that Elon has better funds at his disposal vs Nostr app devs. Jack Dorsey was unable to bring free speech to Twitter because he lacked the funds necessary. Capital matters.
Of course, Twitter/X can still be overtaken by government pressure under Elon, so it makes sense that we have a presence on Nostr.
Instead of a Nostr *only* mentality I prefer a Nostr *also* outlook. Multiple communications channels is the way.
Isn't this an argument for using fiat instead of bitcoin too? More people use fiat and if someone censors your spending, you can use the very system that censors you to fight it (if you have enough money) 😂
Yeah, just a blob. 🤷♀️
Yeah, his thinking is so... 2023.
Literally. 🤣
Yep. And the point with communication is to reach an audience.
Nostr will have better reach in a few years. It is easier to attract people to Nostr if we demonstrate confidence. Confidence means that we don't have a need to lash out at other communication channels.
I can always make my own client, or just host an open-source one. Already have a relay running, so I'm good.
He is living with an App / Play Store - only mentality.
It will be a strange but great day for him, when he will discover the existence of open source software paired with Obtainium and Zap.store
"Bitcoin? Well, what happens when they just turn off the electricity? Checkmate."
;)
Never would have imagined Parker with bad takes
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart.[d] Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
No thing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
— Percy Shelley, "Ozymandias"
🤔
He probably thinks web pages disappear, when they don't show up in search results.
But most people are on that level, unfortunately.
They don't?
Maybe on Apple, but Android users can just F-Droid or Obtainium apps and tell Google to kick rocks.
Pretty funny, coming from the guy who told everyone to delete Facebook.
Censoring an app doesn't remove any notes you saw on that app from other apps.
lol, wow
he's not right. if FBI shuts down Damus that will mean nothing. They will have to shut down every other iOS client and forks of Damus to disrupt iOS nostr users. Even if iOS becomes completely locked down you can still use PWAs and Damus android. Damus doesn't require any special infrastructure except relays. I've designed it so if I die or are imprisoned it will continue working.
I bet Mr. Parker will be on #nostr soon .. its a process .. one goes through such thoughts before they #capitulate :-)
Se algum presidente te chamar para almoçar, recuse!
its still in development but its currently running on phones if you know how to compile things
📍As in I could go compile it now and try it out?
yes of course, if people help it could even be released faster.
just tell people that you can't be demonetized on Nostr so you don't have to preface the majority of your censorship-related tweets with "elon musk has done more for free speech than the founding fathers" or whatever.
Cool, I may try to get it installed before I go on vacation, and certainly afterwards.
Some will go Nostr-only, and yes, that is part of how it'll get traction. The dogmatic users push the unknown into the broader awareness. The "broader awareness" is the tough one though.
Looking at it like an afterthought isn't right exactly. Changes at the general level happen when a need isn't being met or when a prior way of meeting the need is inferior. That is the case here, seemingly. The rest of the obstacle is demonstrating why it's better to everyone that doesn't see why already.
Instead of as an afterthought, it's best to make it an in-addition-to approach. The existing systems are all competing with one another, Nostr isn't free from that competition. So, it should go on the list of "where to find me" with the legacy ones.
Introduction in this way is subtle, nearly frictionless and makes others ask people they trust already about it.
The idea of open source protocols is that anyone can start freely building on it without anyones permission.
If there are none left willing to continue Damus development, then another iOS client will appear with another dev coding it.
It's hard to shutdown decentralized development, you have to chase every developer distributed across different countries/jurisdictions.
Until people find Nostr useful, it will be very hard, almost impossible, to shutdown the network.
*sigh* it will have an effect, on people that rely only on Google or Microsoft, yes those people would be affected, but email in of itself wouldn't.
in fact I'd love for that to happen, it would make email open again; email has been controlled by powerhungry maniacs for years now all because google offered 1 GB of data in exchange for your privacy. The advent of gmail was literally one of the things that exponentially increased the speed of our descent into the surveillance dystopia we find ourselves in now.
Most people don't even use a real computer, anymore, they just use apps on their phones, so they're basically mental captives. Almost everything they do on there seems like magic, and they only use phones to make pictures and post them, or do VOIP calls.
Don't even have a real file system. LOL
Relays on phones are actually bringing a sort of file system to mobile.
He's got a point actually. A decentralized protocol is pointless if clients are centralized.
It's like holding decentralized Bitcoin on a centralized exchange.
I have no idea how to decentralize clients though....
No he doesn’t have a point. clients are not centralized by definition. Clients are just code that talk to relays. You can’t censor code/information.
They can show up to the operators house and stick a gun to their head though. Single points of failure.
Operator of what? The client? Users? They are going to stick the gun to the heads of thousands of people and tell them to stop using code and their eyeballs. Not sure i follow
The owner of the client. For example, you, in relation to Damus.
Just like they did with Pavel Durov. They'll say, "Will, shut Damus down or we're putting you in a cage".
As a client operator, you need to prepare for that. Because eventually, it's a very likely scenario if Nostr takes off. This is a war.
Jailing me would do absolutely nothing. Damus is open source and doesn’t require any supporting infrastructure
You have services though, no? API's, your Relay, iOS versions.
Basically, can the app run forever without maintenance? If not, those fail points will be targeted.
Open source is good. If the app can live in a way that even you can't shut it down in any way, you've solved this problem.
…or is being dishonest / deceptive. He’s not an idiot, so what game is he playing?
I think we all know.
You're fucking back!?!?!?!?! Holy shit. I left after you did. Just poking my head in.
We have our purple api but it’s completely optional. Damus works without it. Damus will run after I’m dead and our team dissolves. So yes it can run forever, if something breaks someone can fix it and put a fork on the appstore.
My dad sed don't listen to them because they can't stop us and don't listen to what other people say and they can't stop us. We will defend freedom of speech
“I am a bitcoiner! But we need more centralization. For the kids!”
Good. You're building robustly then.
On the iOS side, there's still App Store risk. Need good ways to sideload iOS apps without the store. Android is easy. I haven't see many non-jailbreak ways on Apple. Ideas?
🌍 🧑🚀 🔫 🧑🚀
#damus != #nostr
Ya that's a good way. PWA is under-rated. Loses device-based functionality like push notifications though.
No one is worried about the relays. They're quite decentralized. But you can't really use a relay without a client. Right now there's 3 main ones that work. That's why I raise the centralization point.
Open-source and forkable seems to be the most logical key to solving that. Looks like Will is doing that. Good.
Will check out Start9, looks interesting. Thx
Free and open source is the key here.
Anyone can run or modify the code and just carry on.
Maybe he doesn't understand the relay model? Or how open source software works?
A relay isn't optional, but the one run by the client creator (damus, in this case) is.
Isn't that what I said?
People have no frame of reference for nostr, the same way they didn't for bitcoin.
Takes time.
View quoted note →
Will he be the Schiff of #nostr? #asknostr
They're not going to strip the web browsers out of their devices so technically it would always still be available no matter if Apple or Android removed every last single client app.
This is why I always preach that having an old school web UI is important.
I was actually hoping you'd post that! And Dickens is my favourite author.
Thats you doing that not me
I just feel like if you see a list of where to find me, and the top 3 things in the list are all places that you've heard of already and you already have an account there, why would you ever bother with the number 4 spot on the list.
I think we need to achieve a critical mass of people saying this is no.1, and there is no 2nd best.
I think he just doesn’t understand nostr
I see your point. I just know that the biggest changes are the hardest to make.
Did NOSTR die?
X is constantly censoring...
If you say so