Replies (49)
It also hardforked and changed its monetary policy more times than I can count (most recently landing on tail emission aka permanent inflation) and on top of that it's not as private as most people think.
Yes also true
I’m not an expert on Monero, but while interacting with some of them bros, I don’t think it was ever intended as a Trojan horse. More like a blunt instrument to break down the door. It comes with its own set of tradeoffs, and a different strategy. IMO Monero as a cypherpunk project is the most closely related to Bitcoin’s philosophy. No other shitcoin comes close.
Yet it’s still used as money more than Bitcoin. I think it’s time to practice what you preach, take a pause and be humble, because as it is Bitcoin is headed in a very bad direction and winning is far from guaranteed.
Yes, the problem is you still need to trade in/out of it, which is when the privacy breaks down. If it cannot create a sufficient circular economy, its future prospects are extremely limited. And for those use cases where privacy is direly needed, there are already a number of ways you can achieve that with Bitcoin.
Currently Monero has a bigger circular economy than Bitcoin.
It’s not used as money more than Bitcoin. Not even close. Lightning alone processes over $1B per month in transactions, compared to Monero’s 600K. If you include on-chain, Bitcoin is orders of magnitude higher usage as a medium of exchange.
I’m sure a Monero bro will soon appear to set the record straight with some receipts. I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I know a bunch of Bitcoiners and I’m the only one among them who spends his bitcoin, the rest of them vaguely know how to use lightning and just hodl.
False.
This comment is irrelevant.
“What YOU know”
love you man
but you're totally misinformed and talking out your ass here.
monero has never changed its monetary policy.
tail emission is an equitable way for ALL participants in a network to pay for its security.
not just people who spend, which is Bitcoins model.
yeah
hard to get good data here tbh
but the data we DO have shows that with any merchant who accepts both,
monero is used VASTLY more than Bitcoin and LN
It's the fact that you can't easily trade out of it, to fiat, that leads to a circular economy.
Having the choice at first would be a great start !
Tail emissions are not adequate.
Fee market model is a built in censorship resistant / anti-spam *forever security* that always requires real work by those who want to transact
when did tail emissions get added to monero?
🎯
monero has transaction fees too man
but fee market ONLY incentivizes hodling (hoarding) and SOV "usage" over actual value transfer (ie money)
tail emission was part of the original design. its in the cryptonote white paper.
iirc there was a bug discovered and patched a few months after genesis that wouldve made the final emission less than intended.
thinking that #bitcoin NGU is going to magically result in freedom money is like thinking you can comply your way out of tyranny.
the regulatory capure playbook is well understood.
bitcoiners just dont want to read it.
Imagine having a resource that is attacked by the existing State systems. They all must be useless horses.
MOE era will only kick off when the makers of really good stuff refuse all payments except bitcoin.
Until then hoarding corn and spending trash is the best move
Monero isn’t a Trojan horse, it’s a battering ram, or a cannon.
It’s not meant to infiltrate, and subvert.
It’s meant to totally destroy.
The State is our enemy, it must be destroyed totally, and utterly, not reformed.
The longer the state can subjugate people the longer our quality of life is reduced.
Monero has more circulation but less liquidity.
Monero is almost unanimously the more popular payment method of gray markets.
Bitcoin’s advantage over Monero is legal compliance which makes compliant markets more willing to use Bitcoin.
Z-cash is Top-Down.
Bitcoin is Middle-Out.
Monero is Bottom-Up.
Overall, if Monero had more regulatory clarity (which it never will) it would probably be the default currency.
Monero's greatest success was convincing many people that bitcoin is all about privacy!
I suspect you're in a first world country.
I for one haven't heard of any Monero circular economies at the village scale in Africa. I've heard of a good few with Bitcoin. And of course, there's El Salvador, Lugano, Madeira...
I suspect everyone goes through a don't spend your Bitcoin phase. But then you get to the point where you don't keep fiat around enough in the first place to spend (MAYBE an emergency fund) and spend and replace just becomes the obvious way forward. Though admittedly that can be directly, or through bill pay.
how much do we think Monero is private, but it's not?
Bitcoin is the trojan horse for Monero
Get your very compliant non-threatening Bitcoin from a centralized exchange 😇 --> swap to Monero 😈🔪
Monero is not on exchanges because it can’t be tracked.
Tracking senders and receivers is a requirement for VASPs (see Travel Rule): “to share and hold specific customer information with recipient institutions when performing transactions involving virtual assets.”
KYC Bitcoin, IS the real trojan horse.
KYC-free bitcoin or bitcoin lightning is preferred.
We can look at examples where both are accepted. Monero is either ahead or right behind Bitcoin in use. Which is spectacular for how small Moneros userbase is in comparison.
SilentLink, Coincards, NanoGPT, PayPQ, NymVPN, ShopInBit, Porcfest vendors, Darknet Markets, etc all show this when they breakdown what their customers are paying in
Bitcoin and Monero have a symbiotic relationship imo. Different strengths.
Your model is hallucinating.
Monero never changed its monetary policy. Tail emission was there from the first block.
Monero isn't a Trojan horse. Monero is an atomic bomb. You don't need to get into Troy, because Troy doesn't exist.
I’m thinking as a circular economy the kind of net or nets you might belong, like a group of friends, neighbors where you can exchange goods. And some nodes like a business like a small shop or a coffee shop are more relevant because can be used as ATMs like a gate in out.
You need both, the Troy horse (Bitcoin) and with atomic swaps (bombs) permission less access to fungible digital cash (Monero).
Recently? Gigi, this would have been fair criticism 10 years ago.
You can have successful hard forks with overhwhelming community support. Thanks to Monero's exceptional focus on privacy (over becoming a Rube Goldberg machine) consensus is easier to achieve than in other project. Do one thing, and do it exceptionally good applies tos Monero.
Monero had several hard forks during Bitmain/ASIC wars, but all of them died quickly and with it Bitmain gaining influence over Monero mining.
Monero changed block times from 1 to 2 minutes taking into account to also change the distribution accordingly.
It's not the only thing, but a necessary thing to enable an essential money quality that is either granted by decree or mathematics - fungibility.
It has one massive tradeoff. Tail emissions - An infinite supply in the disguise as “security for miners”, where as BTC is fixed and has more security as it gets adopted.
They have no argument against this. Just circular reasoning.
I agree
oh yeah sorry it hardforked all the time to change the mining algo. Apologies for mixing up my shitcoins, easy mistake to make.
What? I use it to buy stuff.
This
How does pricing things in Monero work?
How does pricing things in Monero work?
I took the dollar value and converted it. Based on the guy I was buying from.
Normally I just pay what people tell me, presumably a FIAT process conversion has taken place somewhere therein, unless all production factors were originally Monero priced I guess?
I'm not sure I totally understand the question. Do you mean how do you calculate it? Or do you mean like why does it work or how does it help? I'm not sure exactly which way you mean. So I will answer both.
1. To price an item economically in Monero, simply take the amount of fiat that that item costs, add any kind of shipping and government sales extortion, etc., that has to be paid on top of it, and then divide that by the Monero simple moving average, whichever you prefer. I like the one year, for example. That way you're not constantly dealing with the fluctuations in the Monero price.
2. If you mean how does it help pricing items directly in Monero, then it keeps exchange traders from being able to push Monero's price too far upwards or downwards before it snaps back towards the moving average. Think of it like a bungee cord. It only stretches so far before it snaps back, and by pricing items directly in Monero, you cause that stretch to be less before that snapback occurs.
But what is the source of that average?
