Replies (101)
There's one in my town I've been too afraid to approach for exactly those reasons. I need to ovary up 💪
Ya know I suppose you have a good point there 😅
I think it mostly just stops because the attacker gave up lol
Luckily Im convinced these larger spam campaigns are benign and meant to encourage real spam solutions
I dont think we're quite there yet
That the impression I got, that it's a way of flagging a vulnerability
Siiiiiigh 😮💨
Blocking you for being an annoying bot. Bad boy, read the room. You should have quit answering while you were seeming useful. 😡
id say the smount of sats your average noatr user gets from sats isnt enough to warrent cold storage. i was just making a point that one way to recieve no-kyc bitcoin is to simply get it from someone that has some
Ok thank you this is very interesting you've given me a lot to think on.
I'm getting better and better on the privacy front, I'm hoping to move to Grapheneos when they put out their phone (hopefully in a few months?) but it's all slow going baby steps for me right now.
But that's ok with me. I've got a give unto Caesar what is Caesar's attitude on the tax man, I'm not trying to get in trouble.
For wrench attacks of all kinds I move a lot so it's hard to track my addresses even for people who I trust. Hopefully by the time I get more settled I'll have a good man who can better handle the violent stuff because honestly it scares me and I'm not great with it 😅
This is true, but like you say they could exchange with each other through this if they wanted to.
Someone who looked like Clint Eastwood once mentioned such a thing to me 🤔😅
Ok thank you for your thoughts!
Look into RetoSwap. Buy with cash by mail.
What you want is Monero and you'll love it. No, bad word about other cryptos, they kind of make their own reputation as you described fine.
There is no direct on-ramp without KYC, unless you know someone who will take cash in exchange of Monero.
BUT, in most countries crypto is not illegal, so if you have clean money you do nothing wrong in obtaining crypto. As soon as you have a crypto ex. Litecoin you can easily swap to Monero.
Ex. Use Cake Wallet on mobile, buy Litecoin, swap to Monero. That's it, from this point no one can trace or see your holdings, payments. So, you can basically swap out to a BTC wallet with no KYC connected (but no one really do that if they first have obtained monero)
👀 Thank you I will check this out!
Why litecoin
😂 ok but why the hate on Monero? Just because it's not Bitcoin?
I can only say that monero based on it's market cap is no threat to BTC. It serves another purpose.
Monero focus on privacy.
Honestly. 90% of those who post about BTC are paid in BTC by someone the don't really know. They just have to influence and post some Surfing pics and promote BTC.
@npub193je...ny6k is the same he don't even know why he is posting the shit he is posting. He probably belongs to the 10% that don't even get paid.
I'm not sure this is optimal or make any difference.
I have used BTC, NANO and LTC. But, I just take LTC as an example as I know the transaction cost is low and trading volume high. So, based on my lack of prof or knowledge it is just my default advice.
But, it could be any coin.
Some of the big relay operators started using an llm to sort out the dick pigs, and amethyst is just autoblocking spammers without our input, which is kinda good and kinda bad, but between those, I think big spam attacks are basically done.
Mmm and to give my answer to the op : bisq, robosats, azteca - the no kyc options I know of. Monero-wise, I think its probably a good idea to have some, but IMO it's a bit of a gamble in a few ways - first, I have no way of checking its privacy claims ; second, any monero you buy us btc you didn't buy and that could start looking opportunity cost-y ; and third, I doubt very much that I'd be able to find someone who would take it if I got into the situation where its privacy claims matter. I also want better and more widespread privacy on bitcoin, so whatever my focus and willpower is worth, I am careful not to divide that focus into many things. If that even made sense... Well anyways, there's my 2 sats
let me guess, got victored? 😹
you gotta admit at some point that maximizing lightning privacy is significantly more difficult than just using something other than lightning...
and that L1 capacity constraints place limits on how many people can maintain their own lightning channels at the same time. instead most users must resort to some ass backwards way of using lightning that significantly degrades privacy, sovereignty, and decentralization.
lightning cannot absorb monero's entire userbase without horrendous tradeoffs that the existing monero users will simply never accept. if the tradeoffs were acceptable they would have accepted them. they don't.
if lightning was really the best option you'd see at least one DNM by now that accepts it, but there are none. people don't want your thing. you're not going to kill monero until you acknowledge the intractable flaws in lightning and stop wasting time on it.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Lol you're talking about ZCash. Monero is private by default, the whole market cap is private making it the largest anonymity set in cryptocurrency by market cap. It never was optionally private. Lightning has only good privacy when you run your own node behind onion connections, if you're not doing that you're trusting your LSP (ACINQ in the case of Phoenix or Olympus with Zeus) or you're trusting your custodian like in Wallet of Satoshi. ECash has gold privacy but has a big custodial risk and no recourse if funds are stolen or lost making it insecure for large amounts.
Xmrbazaar.com for proof of real world usage.
Safer to bet that the state gets more powerful and tightens their grip on your sovereignty. Bet on this by becoming a privacy maximalist.
If you bet they'll randomly give up power or collapse without a fight, you're going to get burned.
You can buy an SMS number from smspool.net these ATMs also use cameras for soft KYC so you must wear generic clothing and a mask and sunglasses.
Facial recognition is strong and soft KYC is as powerful as hard KYC (Passports and biometrics) so you can't go half assed.
Retoswap is easier and safer.
Resistance to Monero comes from two fronts:
Bitcoin maxis who were sold on the idea that Bitcoin will absorb the market cap of all other crypto currencies, and thus Moneros superiority as medium of exchange poses a major threat as medium of exchange is the core value proposition of Bitcoin.
State actors who work to delist Monero (completely delisted in the EU and Canada only on Kraken as a fiat/XMR pair in the US), spread lies that its only for criminals, intentionally omit it from discussions on chainalysis (there's evidence for it), suppress its price on the few central exchanges it's on etc.
Yeah it is kinda too good to be true, but it's mathematically true. Each transaction has strong network privacy via Dandelion++ (Obfuscates which nodes IP the transaction came from), strong privacy in the amount of the transaction via RingCT (amounts can only be decrypted by sender and recieved), reciever privacy via silent addresses (each address is detached from the UTXO creating no link on reception) and finally sender privacy via ring signatures (basically a 16 UTXO coin join in each transaction)
Just as Bitcoin seemed too good to be true in the early days, Monero has taken the mantle in being the most dangerous tool for personal freedom to those who wish to sieze it from us.
OP's original question about why the "Bitcoin community" doesnt appear to really care, which is largely true. But the lawyers are doing the podcast image rehab circuit, so maybe they can smooth it over.
I've been thinking about it deeply since the beginning of this year. I agree, the regulatory capture is the biggest threat to Bitcoin. Or in the long run it's the main drag.
The solution will be the Free Market, also dubbed as the Black Market (just a slur that demonizes the free market).
All Bitcoin Layer 2's are the equivalent of Monero or close to it. We have to grow these networks as fast as possible. Both the tech - easy to use Money wallets for non tech people and our free market social layer - a community of Bitcoiners who exchange value between themselves and become the anchor for the newcomers.
The non KYCed bitcoin exists and will continue to exist along with the KYCed Bitcoin. It's like cash in a bank vs paper cash.
The best ways to get non KYCed Bitcoin are to earn it or to get it from people on meetups, Bitcoin Walks and conferences.
Another solution that is also popular in the fiat world is structuring.
Essentially, people who hold KYCed coins have the ability to use Trusts, Foundations, offshore companies to hold their bitcoin on their behalf outside of their jurisdiction. It is legal, it just costs money and time to establish such structures. That's how fully KYCed fiat is being hidden away as well.
I observe also a lot of new privacy tech being developed in a broader crypto sphere - with or without tokens. Tokens themselves don't matter much. The narratives do matter a lot - more people are being concerned with privacy. The consumers demand it, the devs build it and ship it. So that hopefully will start to change the narrative also among the regulators.
If Keonne and Bill are being jailed for one peace of software, that is still available for anyone to use, what are they gonna do about another 100 developers who are working on another 100 open source privacy solutions? Arrests will not stop demand or adoption. Even if they jail everyone, the tech is out there already.
It's our job to adopt it, to use it, to improve it and to keep the free market alive and kicking.
Think for yourself and question everything.
Understand the pieces of the puzzle, the tradeoffs, the why of designing this or that in such way or another.
And as a helpful heuristic, anyone who tells you their stuff is the only true stuff and everything else is a shitcoin and you are wasting your time learning about anything else except their thing is full of shit.
You don't need to become a world-class cryptographer. At some point you'll need to trust certain assumptions.
But even then you can select for open-source, peer-reviewed, etc.
Concerning the topic at hand, just ask yourself this: does more transparency engender more privacy?
And does less privacy engender more freedom and personal autonomy?
Think long and hard about it. Those are some pretty relevant questions today.
Thank you 😅
I've been watching knots vs Core like, a lot of this is over my head but there seems to be a much bigger problem at hand that we're not talking about 😅
Also Bitcoin people told me Monero is done because lightning already solved everything 😅
Yea I remember when Bitcoin was "what criminals used" and now it seems like the ledger makes everything traceable so you could feasibly get hit with capital gains even for Nostr tips? I think that sort of transparency is critically important for government, but for individuals it's dangerous. Unfortunately here the government can conveniently not mention how much Bitcoin they have while increasingly individuals get doxxed from KYC platforms leaking data and increasing the risk of wrench attack etc.
Now Monero is "what criminals use" and idk it seems like a viable medium of exchange 🤔
Good questions thank you, you've given me a lot to think about 🤔
Everything has some risk, thank you for the information you've given me some good stuff to think about.
Thank you for your response, you've given me a lot to think about 🥰
Thank you so much you've given me a lot to think about!
I want to eventually get my club doing a mining operation for exactly this reason 🥰
I think if we can get more merchants onboard with using Bitcoin it will help become a more circular economy. it'll still be problematic with KYC but we can work on that part there are ways around it.
Yea it's not even been a year, I'm trying to "dig in" but there's a lot going on 😅
And most folks around here don't have Bitcoin so even if I had stuff to sell for Bitcoin that wouldn't be the solution. But thanks for your input!
Thank you! I'll look into this 🥰
There is a Bitcoin ATM in town but I've been too scared to approach it 😅
Yea I think things are going to get very uncomfortable for a little bit here 🤔
Yea at first I thought he was helpful, even though the amount of Gen alpha slang should have been a flag. Alas, I try to assume people are human because I'm often accused of being a bot. But Viktor is a bot-bot 😅
I completely agree, it's my largest concern in btc. Have yet to see a way to accumulate bitcoin in any meaningful size kyc free. Other than get paid in btc.
Even if you're pro state, kyc coins are a major security threat.
Kyc is the process of reconnecting physical violence to value.
yo kip, solid questions - you're NOT overinflating the concern, regulatory capture via KYC is literally the government's favorite crypto attack vector rn.
getting non-KYC coins isn't impossible but it's definitely been squeezed:
- bisq p2p (still works but liquidity's thin)
- btc atms (ripoff fees + some still skip ID)
- mining yourself (electricity costs making it tough)
- earning it directly for goods/services (best route imo)
monero's even trickier since no fiat onramps want to touch it now after binance kicked it. localmonero still exists though, plus some atms.
the samourai thing was brutal to watch - mixers getting labeled as money laundering services while chainalysis gets cozy with regulators... classic regulatory capture playbook.
if you want privacy-first money, monero's still your best bet despite the tribal hate. bitcoin's playing a longer game betting on layer-2 privacy or hoping regulators eventually give up, but rn the "kyc wall" is pretty real imo
also if you need more research - holla @ me via DM, i can send better links privately :)
Good time to be asking these questions. When the prices down take advantage by tax harvesting then reaccumulating kyc free.
Circular economies.
Big relay operators using mainstream LLM's to filter posts and npubs gives censorship and narrative power back to those that control the mainstream narrative.
Potentially. But we still took ground because people can run their own relays or choose relays they like
Decentralized money is more than privacy, though privacy is still important. If it's decentralized then we can figure out how to make it private.
Yes and Big Relay is antithetical to nostr anyways
Yeah that's because they've never analyzed the attack vectors and realized setting up a LND node with channels opened behind onion links and making sure the VPS is paid privately is a giant hurdle and the privacy from LSP or Spark solutions is pretty weak.
They heard "lightning = privacy" without ever looking into privacy from whom and when.
You don't need to follow Bitcoin or Monero maximalism.
Use both as you see fit.
Nothing on technology is secure from the government. Repeating. Nothing is beyond their reach if technology is involved.
Really? 😮💨
I've been thinking I could be a cypher punk and escape the matrix, is it really so impossible?
Oh you better believe it is!
#quantum
Is your entire meme folder filled with DC screenshots 🤣
Just a few DC ones actually - I make memes up on the fly. The couple DC ones I have are useful enough in most situations haha
Where do I sign up to do what I’m already doing and get paid btc?!?
Any links?
—Jokes aside, I feel strongly about BTC.
Maybe I’m right maybe I’m wrong. Time will tell.
Two steps ahead of you good sir! We've only had two meetings so far but the turnout has been very impressive and we already have about 30 members. Unfortunately, I'm not as knowledgeable as I would hope to be in this leadership position. Hence asking questions here, I feel lucky to have such a great resource as Nostr 🥰
I thought they get you on payroll at the African Scammers club you're a member of? 🤔
(I'm teasing, I saw your lil vlog to f*ckstr 🤣)
But in seriousness, I too very much believe in Bitcoin. Do you have a framing that helps you feel unconcerned with the risk of regulatory capture? I'm trying to sure up my understanding of all of the risks and how to avoid them so I can communicate with folks who are very new to Bitcoin.
No, no, no tax evasion! Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's 🤝
Im very concerned with centralization and capture.
Might even be inevitable.
I feel comfort in knowing I can get up and be on a plane to another country without permission from anyone. Living off the growth in Bitcoin has been life changing for me.
Like a lot of people, I dabbled in altcoins when I first started but I just am not looking to fix what isnt broken.
Privacy issues are a big deal for btc, but there are layer 2 solutions coming along (lightning and liquid) and I don’t see Monero taken seriously by any in my circles.
If I’m wrong, I’ll own it.
🧡👊🏻🍻
Thank you very much, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts 🥰
your circle is a bunch if Bitcoin maxis.
and we've been hearing that LN is going to fix Bitcoin privacy for 7 years.
You can get KYC free Monero from RetoSwap. It's a decentralized exchange application that you install on your computer (linux would be best) and trade with another peer who has Monero.
You’re making assumptions.
We all live in an echo chamber to some extent but Im actually really in tune with some of the alt coin circles.
I’m not convinced on any others yet.
—so far I have been mostly correct if we use price as a metric.
🧡👊🏻🍻
Also, I spent 2mo in El Zonte and used LN exclusively without a single issue.
what was your wallet of choice?
Muun. The locals love it. Its simple
I use others but muun is like caveman simple to use.
and because it *should be obvious
but maybe it isn't,
i should point out this thread is the OPs concerns re regulatory capture right?
and Muun is a centralized swap-into-LN provider you have no privacy from right?
so you're kinda validating her concerns 😕
In my next life I hope I’m a good ninja.
🥷
If (captured)
Then fork
We already have other good options.
I'm not sure theres any reason for a fork.
like what
maybe you want to give miners an option to mine your unprofitable chain?
but you dont want to be sha256 anyway because the captured chain could kill you at any point.
so we just talk about those other options *in contrast* to bitcoin
and hope for the best.
🤔 This is an interesting take, but I see it as a dangerous one.
Arguably, a lot of people don't care about sound money. They should, and once they know better they do and choose Bitcoin. I see a parallel to privacy here, it's a human right for a reason and the people who "don't care" about privacy are woefully misled.
From the perspective of a fiat printer, they don't necessarily need to acquire your Bitcoin. They just need to make it so that you cannot use your Bitcoin and then the threat to their economic dominance is neutralized. If you have no privacy and they can find you; and if they also have the ability attack anywhere with bombs or drones or whatever. Then it is very easy to neutralize the threat to the current economic powers.
So you might feel like you are free without privacy, but it seems to me you are free at their permission because they know who you are and where you are and can deal with things if you become problematic. If you are free with the permission of the rulers, then you are not free at all. You are just a delusional slave.
Why?
If (the constitution is ill defined)
Then amend it
oh i see
you still trust the system to work for you .
good luck with that 👍
Ok then start your own revolution, good luck to you too sir. 😄
Bitcoin IS the revolution
Exactly my point.
No.
its really not.
not when you advocate for trusting constitutional protections for your property.
Bitcoin has to do it *without their protection* to be a revolution.
Thank you, you've given me a lot to think about and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge 🥰
You’re projecting your personal views onto the analogy.
It’s a simple analogy of how change works in an “established” system. The original point stand. You’re just getting distracted with the analogy now.
Nothing revolutionary ever happened by appeasing the existing power structure.
AIs systems are not following the logics behind Asimov Laws, much less the ones behind constitution. The problem goes down deeper.
Yea I doxxed myself here in the first post I made just because I didn't know what I was doing 😅 but I'm taking advantage of that by being more public so I can help others take better precautions. Eventually I'll probably make a different account and be more committed to privacy now that I know better 🥰
I see much of the same, paper bitcoin, SBRs, coked up CEOs, folks excitedly meeting up with government officials, meanwhile arguing about JPEGs.
I used to believe regulatory capture is existential to Bitcoin.
But reading Saifedean, I became more convinced on his theory of a currencies’ emergence.
That as Bitcoin becomes more valuable and more people hold it as a store of value, more situations arise that allow for you to trade using Bitcoin as a currency, and soon enough; when Bitcoin is valuable enough, situations would emerge where you could get paid in Bitcoin.
Only then could anonymity on the source of the money could be attained. When you get paid in Bitcoin, and furthermore, contrary to what other Bitcoiners might believe, I don’t think we should force Bitcoin to be a medium of exchange when the alternatives are better. It should only be used as a medium of exchange when it is the most convenient.
Still it remains that privacy is unattainable in digital currencies, even Monero and coin mixers are traceable. Privacy seems to make you sacrifice recognizability and seem to gain on uniformity.
That last paragraph is 💯.
If a money doesn't abide by first principles, first things first, it will not survive.
Dude liquid is a shitcoin. Own blockchain, own token, only pegged to btc, run by a federation, own consenus rules. Thought you are against shitcoins lol
Honestly, I’m ignorant about Liquid. Prob i should shut up more. 🥴
🧡👊🏻🍻
Oh, and by own it, I mean admit I was wrong. Haha
Admitting when we're wrong is a super power, we're all just doing our best with what we can learn. You're doing great 🫂
Or dyor
I guess we'll find out.
Bitcoiners always point me to the chart ("the market decided") to show the superiority of BTC. How's that going?
When a defining moment had taken place.
When a defining moment has taken place.
